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Genuine Parker-Hale barrel markings - roll marks and proof stamps

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A pal has recently contacted me about buying a second-hand rifle in the USA which purports to be a genuine Parker-Hale rifle in all respects, having come from DGW as a used gun a number of years back.

Since there is still a lot of myth and legend (and pure hokey) surrounding these fine guns, I thought I'd put up a few pics of one of mine, the Carbine Model of 1861, often called a Musketoon, for you to use for reference. It's a very handy brush gun with a decent load, so I'm told. Here in UK it makes neither the required velocity nor the muzzle energy - so it can't possibly work, right? ;)

Apologies for the maybe-not-so-good pics here and there, but as many of you know, taking close-ups of a round barrel can be a mite difficult.

ALL genuine BREECHED PH barrels were Birmingham proofed - no exceptions to this - it is the law here in UK since since Noah was looking at a bunch of trees and thinking what a fine boat they'd make. In the dispersion of PH's assets to Italy and the Euroarms factory, those that were simply bored through, without a breech plug, could not therefore be subject to any kind of proof back in UK, so you MAY find a PH barrel with Italian proof marks on it - it will have been fitted with a breech plug and proofed in Gardone Val Trompia, Brescia, location of Italy's national proof house. Other people have recently posted details of the Italian proof stamps, so I'll ask you to back-refer to them, if you need to do so.

All genuine PH-built guns stopped at around serial #9000 or so - give or take a couple of hundred. After that, the genuine PH barrels ALL ran out at around #14000. And after that, the entire gun was Italian-made.

The serial number will be stamped left on the barrel, clearly visible above the wood line. Some three-band rifle may have the letter H in front of the number - ie. H3445. This denotes Henry rifling.

1607789229548.png

Figure 1 - position and style of the serial number.

The PH cartouche will be deeply stamped on the RH bottom of the butt.

1607787003580.png
Figure 2 - brand stamp.

The barrel bands will be deep-blued to match the rest of the gun, and the furniture will ALL be brass - trigger guard and butt plate.

1607789279703.png

Figure 3 - overall view. The ramrod is the original ram rod, and remembering that this is an older production gun, a later production version MAY have a brass tip.

The nail - what you call the tang screw, will usually be colour case-hardened like the lock plate. Note than unlike the Italian versions, this is correctly done with bone fragments to give a deeply fused colour, not an overlay of bone powder 'flashed in' with a gas torch, and which readily scrapes off with a fingernail.

The proof stamps will be found at 6 o/clock on the barrel directly under the breech area - note the muzzle is pointing to the left -

1607787554580.png

Figure 4 - Left to right -

Crown over BP = Birmingham Proof.

3 1/2 DRAMS BLACK POWDER - this is the proof load - NOT the day-to-day recommended load. 1 Dram = 27.3438gr - so this is just over 95gr. Shooting THIS load with the correct bullet, a 535gr Minié, is possible, but genuinely not nice. Try it once it you care too, but by yourself, OK? The in-service British load for the Enfield rifle, two or three-band, was 2 1/2 drams - 68gr. The carbine load, where applied, was just 2 drams, about the same as the US service load for the Springfield rifled musket. All work well - you choose.

577 GRs = calibre of the arm in inches.

536 grs Bullet = weight of the appropriate Minié bullet.

Crown over crossed scepters with sundry lettering = left and right letters give the date code, and the number in the bottom centre is the ID code for the inspector - 1 = top dog, working down to 9. I've never seen anything lower than a six.

Rolled lettering on the barrel at 12 o/clock -

1607788217949.png

Figure 5 - Maker's name.

PH Lock plate -

1607788580652.png

Figure 6 - Lockplate view.

Note that some have a bolster screw. Date over Enfield, and crown over PH. Note also the fit on this fifty-year-old gun, and the quality of the colour hardening. This gun gets USED - most guest days, once a month, maybe thirty/forty shots. Another thing to note is that the barrel bands are ALL blued - not colour cased. Pedersoli and Euroarms guns are usually the latter.

And while we have made the odd mention to the PH Whitworth rifle - note the location of the title on my early PH gun -

1607789887444.png

Figure 7 - Sir Joseph Whitworths Patent Rifling - - 451 Cal.

...and the simple design of the lockplate -

1607789954219.png

Figure 8 - Whitworth rifle lockplate.

1607790132295.png

Figure 9 - Whitworth rifle - PH version.

Please feel free to correct any mistales here.
 

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Thanks - great post which I hereby nominate for a "sticky"!

Here are a couple of additional images. The first one shows the serial number of an early Birmingham Parker-Hale 3-band Volunteer rifle - it has Henry rifling, shown here by the "H" preface to the 3-digit serial number (as mentioned above by TFoley).

Volunteer-serial-no.jpg


And this next image is of the "beneath the barrel" proof markings on the same rifle:

Volunteer-proofs-75.jpg


And finally a photo of the whole rifle:

Volunteer OA-R.jpg
 
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Many thanks for that, Tom. The proof dates it to 1987. David Minshall might come along and note the number - he likes to see the prefix if there is one.

Note how the lock nails are case-hardened!! Great example to see there.
 
Picked up one of these P-H Musketoons off of Gunbroker earlier this year. Mine is in the 8,000 serial number range. Haven't had the barrel out of the stock, but it has the BP proof marks stamped in a couple places on top of the barrel and has all the other features that you noted in your post.

Not sure what these generally go for, but the one I got had been posted up for a while for what I thought was a reasonable price, so I decided to snap it up before someone else did!

It's really nice and clean - doesn't appear to have been fired very much at all. I haven't had the chance to try it out yet but looking forward to it.
 
All genuine PH-built guns stopped at around serial #9000 or so - give or take a couple of hundred. After that, the genuine PH barrels ALL ran out at around #14000. And after that, the entire gun was Italian-made.
I think they ran to a few over #10000 and all I have record of between c8000 & c10000 are P.61. Following that I have one rifle 14### (that's all the owner shared), then sequence starts again c15000, which may be when Navy Arms started production(?). There's another big jump in numbering and a further sequence which may be when the Italian production started(?). I have info. on around 650 rifles. Biggest help on understanding production is having the serial number and proof codes - as the latter are not readily accessible, I mostly just get serial numbers from correspondents.

David
 
Picked up one of these P-H Musketoons off of Gunbroker earlier this year. Mine is in the 8,000 serial number range. Haven't had the barrel out of the stock, but it has the BP proof marks stamped in a couple places on top of the barrel and has all the other features that you noted in your post.

Not sure what these generally go for, but the one I got had been posted up for a while for what I thought was a reasonable price, so I decided to snap it up before someone else did!

It's really nice and clean - doesn't appear to have been fired very much at all. I haven't had the chance to try it out yet but looking forward to it.

V. odd. The proof marks are usually at 6 o/clock, as shown in my image above. I've never seen any with the stamps in the position you mention. We'd like to see it, and a clear shot of the date stamp too, please.
 
As may be obvious, I'm not very knowledgeable about this stuff, so maybe I may have mis-stated things.

I did take the barrel out of the stock and took photos of all the markings that I could find. Maybe this will help and someone could let me know what I actually have?

Markings on bottom of barrel:
IMG_0788.JPG


Serial number:
IMG_0789.JPG





Top of barrel:
IMG_0792.JPG



IMG_0791.JPG
 
Sir, you gots the real Parker-Hale item. Can't quite make out the date stamp - can I ask you to redo it for us please? As I noted earlier - crown over BP = Birmingham Proof. Notice that the rolls and stamps are applied, and only THEN is the gun blacked - just in case.......mind you, if it had failed for some reason [something that never, AFAIK, EVER happened] the option would not have been open.

BTW, many thanks for the EXCELLENT pics!!
 
Note to ALL P-H users and shooters - it's a great idea to use a thin copper washer under the nipple to act as a mechanical barrier between the usually copper-beryllium original nipple and the bolster. AND a teeny dab of Copper-slip or similar on the threads ere you put the nipple back in.

Image from Peter Dyson's webpages...they cost us £1 each here in UK, but no doubt Lowes/Crappy Tires/Home Depot/Machine Mart has got something cheaper.

1607888412529.png
 
Great Info, there is a general lack of info on real P-H Enfields and a compilation of pics and Serial #'s of existing rifles would be awesome. I can't think of the serial offhand but I have my Birmingham proofed P53 that ended up in an Italian Whitworth stock.
 
Sir, you gots the real Parker-Hale item. Can't quite make out the date stamp - can I ask you to redo it for us please? As I noted earlier - crown over BP = Birmingham Proof. Notice that the rolls and stamps are applied, and only THEN is the gun blacked - just in case.......mind you, if it had failed for some reason [something that never, AFAIK, EVER happened] the option would not have been open.

BTW, many thanks for the EXCELLENT pics!!

Thank you for confirming that I have the real deal.

I couldn't get a great closeup of the date stamp - it isn't a very distinct stamping to begin with. It looks to me that the letters are FB over the number 2, if this makes any sense.

IMG_0794 (2).JPG
 
Whinemeal, I'm shortly going to be acquiring THIS from a local shooter. Due to the way things work here, I can't actually 'acquire and possess it' yet because it is only authorised on my new FAC, that doesn't come into force until early January. Of course, that will stop me using it to carry out many armed robberies and corner store hold-ups, as well as sundry muggings and 'demanding money with menaces'.

1607897206925.png
 
Thanks Mr. Foley, Mr. Minshall and everyone else for their contributions to this thread. Too bad I didn't know it last year. I purchased my "Parker Hale" Whitworth #34,xxx online as a Parker Hale. Turns out it is nether fish nor fowl, Italian proofed in 1999 and marked with DGG for Armi San Palo and Black Powder Only under the breech. Apparently this was before the formation of Euroarms. It has no visible markings on the barrel other than "Parker Hale Birmingham England" and "Sir Joseph Whitworth's Rifling .451". There is however a very small "Made in Italy" mark on the trigger guard which I overlooked in the pictures. Inside the lock a faint P-H is visible on the bridle. The Parker Hale stamped stock looks like Walnut but must be "Ironwood" as my rifle is on the heavy side at 10lbs 5oz. I picked it up for half the price of a new Pedersoli Whitworth so I'm happy with it. The metal finish isn't quite as nice as my real PH 2 Bander but the wood is much prettier (flamed) compared to my rather plain stocked PH 2 Bander. The rear sight uses the same replaceable blade to adjust elevation like the real PH. I don't think the new Pedersoli Whitworth does. On the plus side I'm more likely to consider inletting or screwing a long range sight base into the stock on a half price rifle:thumb:
 
TFoley
Thanks for the Birmingham Proof Mark Date codes. I copied the picture and pasted it into a picture in my Photoshop and then saved it to my Black Powder information file. :)

I have three original Parker-Hale Enfields. A Musketoon, 2 band and 3 band. All of them are genuine English production guns.

At the moment, they are locked away but one of these days, I might get them out to see what the proof dates are.
The Serial number of the Musketoon is 562x.
The 2 Band Serial number is 446x.
The 3 Band Serial number is 301x.
("x" replaces actual number)
 
Mr Whitworth - I'm very glad to have been of help to you in your search for information. Pics would be REALLY good to have to go on my P-H file, and I'm sure that Mr Minshall would also be interested to see your rifle, in any event.
 
I started to purchase one of these rifles many years ago. I thought it was to expensive back then but now I could kick myself for not taking the plunge and getting the rifle! The British made the rifle and the southern rebels made it historic!
 
That's very kind of you, Sir. Full length, please, both sides, with some kind of a measure stick for scaling. All markings with the images taken at right-angles to the plane of the markings - please, no 'tapered/perspective' views. Muzzle shot and lock details, too, and anything else you can think of - in good sunlight, please.

TIA
 

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