Franken MLs

Discussion in 'General Muzzleloading' started by yonderin, Aug 25, 2019.

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum by donating:

  1. Aug 25, 2019 #1

    yonderin

    yonderin

    yonderin

    36 Cal.

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    13
    This is tongue in cheek. Somebody is having issues and a new lock is recommended, which they install. Accuracy is an issue and a new barrel is suggested and purchased.

    At what point do they no longer have the same make/model/manufacturer they started with?

    The stock is still original. Or trigger guard. Or ramrod.

    :p
     
  2. Aug 25, 2019 #2

    Grenadier1758

    Grenadier1758

    Grenadier1758

    58 Cal.

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2004
    Messages:
    3,445
    Likes Received:
    514
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Its original, just like my great grand dad's axe. Handles been replaced three times and the head once, but its still Great Granddad's original axe.
     
    desi23, Cruzatte, Ames and 1 other person like this.
  3. Aug 25, 2019 #3

    bang

    bang

    bang

    45 Cal.

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Messages:
    557
    Likes Received:
    159
    Should have tried refurbishing the riflings before giving up on original barrel. Unless it was just trashed or has bulge. I did 2 lately and it improved the accuracy considerably.
    But if you are rebarreling it's really no different. Just replacing worn or damaged parts. I mean putting brake pads on a ford doesn't make it a toyota.
     
  4. Aug 25, 2019 #4

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    58 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Messages:
    2,210
    Likes Received:
    822
    I think the term you are looking for is "custom".
     
  5. Aug 25, 2019 #5

    Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave

    Cannon MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2011
    Messages:
    8,094
    Likes Received:
    812
    Location:
    People's Republic of Maryland
    Probably the old saying applies....Lock, Stock, and Barrel

    It would depend on the replacements....
    If you had as my cohort had, a salvaged Jap Bess, and the lock was in terrible condition, and was replaced with a barely used Jap Bess lock..., it's still a Jap Bess. If his barrel hadn't turned out to be serviceable, and I had replaced it with another used Jap Bess barrel, it would still be a Jap Bess. If the stock was replaced with a Bess stock from Dunlap Woodcraft, it would still be a Jap Bess...but not with "all original parts". ;)

    So I'd say if two of the three above parts are from the same maker for the same model of a gun or rifle, it's probably still that item. On the other hand, if you take my Frankenbess project, where I have a Dunlap stock, a Jap barrel and a Persoli lock, an after market Bess rammer, and I'm going to use a LLP butt plate and side plate, while using a Pedersoli trigger guard, trigger, and ramrod thimbles....

    LD
     
  6. Aug 28, 2019 #6

    eggwelder

    eggwelder

    eggwelder

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    May 27, 2015
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    7
    SOOOO...
    if i have an 1839 Tower lock, butt plate and barrel, 1853 enfield trigger, repro bess ramrod pipes, and trigger guard, a home made steel rammer, a home-made brass nose cap and a home made walnut stock, and they all work together, what is it?
     
  7. Aug 28, 2019 #7

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    58 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Messages:
    2,210
    Likes Received:
    822
    Period correct.
     
    eggwelder likes this.
  8. Aug 28, 2019 #8

    Sparkitoff

    Sparkitoff

    Sparkitoff

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    113
    Location:
    N.C. and elsewhere
    I think if you change one component it is a "modified XYZ", for example modified T/C. Once you change more than one component there is not a lot of credit due the original manufacturer. You can't say your "CVA" is reliable and accurate if it has a RPL lock and GM barrel. It is misleading as far as the credit due for the accuracy and reliability. I think you could/should name the original component and cite the new parts. For example: "a CVA stock with a LPR lock and GM barrel", or a T/C lock on a PR stock with Colrain barrel. What if you change it all? For example I had a T/C Renegade. I change the barrel to a GM barrel. Then I changed the lock to a L&R RPL. Then I restocked it with a Pecatonia River stock. Now, all these parts are "Renegade" replacement parts (and supposedly drop-in, NOT) but there is only the trigger group left of the original T/C Renegade. Some people still want to call it that, however in person they do not recognize it as such at all. It really is a custom assembly (but not a custom build).
     
  9. Aug 28, 2019 #9

    Walkingeagle

    Walkingeagle

    Walkingeagle

    32 Cal.

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    115
    Location:
    Alberta
    I would more closely call it a “parts build” personally.
    Walk
     
    theoldredneck and Ames like this.
  10. Aug 29, 2019 #10

    Ames

    Ames

    Ames

    45 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    1,124
    Likes Received:
    219
    Location:
    The horned toad says we should go to Mexico.
    Agree. But If it puts meat in the freezer I'd call it sweet.;)
     
    theoldredneck likes this.
  11. Aug 29, 2019 #11

    Sparkitoff

    Sparkitoff

    Sparkitoff

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    113
    Location:
    N.C. and elsewhere
    Parts build is a fair label for it!
     
  12. Aug 29, 2019 #12

    Walkingeagle

    Walkingeagle

    Walkingeagle

    32 Cal.

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    115
    Location:
    Alberta
    My old hunting buddy is a parts build. Pecatonia River walnut half stock, GM .54 rb twist 32” percussion barrel, TC lock and trigger, sand cast steel butt plate and trigger guard. My first attempt at anything outside of a Lyman GPR kit. Not pretty but solid and reliable! A more perfect home built poor boy plains rifle cannot be had. Has made lots of meat, whitetail, mullie, bear and moose, with moose being the first thing collected.
    Walk
     
    Ames likes this.
  13. Aug 31, 2019 #13

    Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave

    Cannon MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2011
    Messages:
    8,094
    Likes Received:
    812
    Location:
    People's Republic of Maryland
    AH but the problem is, a lot of the hand build originals, didn't have standardized parts. Does the LLP Bess, aka The King's Musket when retrofitted with a metal rammer, become a "modified" LLP Bess? OK so what happens if it came from the supplier with a metal ramrod, back in the day?

    Sounds like a "tower" musket to me. IF it's an Enfield lock, and an Enfield barrel (and an Enfield stock) it's an Enfield..., perhaps a "non-typical" Enfield, but it's an Enfield.

    LD
     

Share This Page

arrow_white