Fowler or shotgun???

[barebackjack]

I had a gentlemen tell me that a fowler does not make a good "shotgun".

I have a few questions.

Is a fowler and a smoothbore "rifle" the same thing? Or, can they be considered the same thing?

Im assuming that if you did a majority of "shotgunning" you would choose a shotgun?......but

If one were to want a "double duty" firearm how well does a fowler or smoothbore "rifle" work as a "shotgun" for wingshooting upland and waterfowl?

Thanks

 

[flintlockmdj]

Fowler is an older name for shotgun, since shot was used to shoot fowels it later became better known as a shotgun.

 

[BrownBear]

The big difference for me would be in stock design and overall balance. I'm anxious to try a fowler of some sort, but all my experience is with double shotguns. I found them wanting in the little bit of RB shooting I did, mostly over accuracy issues. I'm a little leery of fowlers for quick handling like I get with a double, so it may well be a case of leaning more toward PRB performance and occasional use with shot with a fowler.

Only a guess on my part, but I'm real picky about gun balance and pointing when chasing airborn stuff. Come to think about it, I'm picky too when poking 4-legged stuff, so that's why I wasn't happy with the doubles. Can't say how much the fowler would tip that balance either way, but I'm betting the difference is enough to get your attention.

 

[paulvallandigham]

II have both a Double barrel shotgun and a fowler. I only shoot shot out of the DB. In the fowler, I can shoot both round ball and shot loads. Many people don't adjust to fowlers because they are, or should be flintlock actioned guns. Shooters who are only experienced with shooting percussion locks are just not prepared for the extra work it takes to shoot a flintlock well. Its a different system, even though you will use the same powder, ball and shot in both guns.

My fowler was made with a relatively short barrel when compared to most of the surviving originals. I have a 30 inch, half round, half Octagon barrel, in 20 gauge. Its shoots .600 RB fine, and it shoots 3/4 and 7/8 oz loads of shot fine, too.

Read the V.M. Starr article on Bob Spenser's Black Powder Notebook site,
[url] http://members.aye.net/~bspen/starr.html[/url]

As well as Bob's own article on loading the shotgun for ideas on how to load and shoot both types of guns. I think it is very difficult to find a Double Barreled shotgun that will put either barrel shooting a round ball on the POA, using the center bead on the gun. YOu can do several things to a shotgun to move the POI around on that target at a given distance, and this can also be done on a double barrel gun. However, most of the round barrels you find on replica shotguns were just not intended to be used with Round Ball loads. Most shooters want to load up their RB guns with the most velocity they can get. That produces very high pressures, which is not a nice thing to do to treat those barrels. Shooters need to realize that the very large ball that is traveling down range does not have to go fast to kill well past 100 yds, but because it loses velocity so quickly, shots are better kept under 50 yds. Don't load them over the speed of sound at the muzzle and you don't have to deal with the problems that occur when the ball comes back down through the sound barrier( 1100 fps ). At the short ranges that deer are shot, you don't need all that velocity to send that ball completely through a deer.

BTW, the most common reason that shooters have trouble finding an accurate load in a smoothbore gun is because they use too much powder, trying to replicate modern shutgun slug velocities. To even get close requires a very strong barrel, heavy gun, and someone who can stand tremendous recoil. The barrel had better be glass bedded in the stock or the stock can crack, too, just before your shoulder dislocates. :surrender:

 

[unspellable]

As a type, the fowler orginated in the flintlock era and was used for shooting sitting ducks. The gun tended to be long in the barrel while weight and balance were not an issue. The pan flash would startle the ducks and combined with the long lock time it was only practical for sitting ducks.

With the invention of the percussion lock, the pan flash was illiminated and the lock time greatly reduced. Wing shooting became a practical proposition and considerations of weight balance and handling led to what we know as the shotgun.

In general, it must be a precussion lock or a breech loader to qualify as a shotgun. Flintlocks are generally fowlers although there may be a few examples of attempts to build a light, well balanced, and good handling flintlock. The key difference is in the weight, balance, and handling.

 

[Stophel]

Ah, the perpetuation of the percussion myth!

There are plenty of fine, FAST flintlock fowling guns.

A fowling gun is a gun made for taking birds, generally meaning on the wing, but waterfowl guns can be called fowlers as well. The word "fowler" today seems to be used for any smoothbore gun, and it shouldn't be.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I have personally handled a Tower armory made, Double Barrel Flintlock Shotgun dated 1776, with double throated cocks, sling swivel on the front of the brass trgger guard, etc. It had 36 inch barrels, and was extremely fast, both for moving, and in ignition. While I was not allowed to actually shoot the gun, we did examine the flint to frizzen angles, location of the touch hole to pan, etc. and this gun was no doubt made for an officer who wanted a gun to hunt.

As to the slow ignition of flints, the only slow ones I know are either made wrong, and/or loaded incorrectly.

You might benefit from reading my article,
[url] www.chuckhawks.com/flintlocks.htm[/url]

where I write at length on how to tune and then load and shoot a flintlock so that your ignition is so fast, you can't move the barrel off target between the time the cock falls and the gun fires.

I believe that you will lay the percussion myth to rest once and for all. I only wish I could have a dollar for every percussion gun shooter who has come over to me on the range, and asked, " I thought you were shooting a flintlock?", who then stands with gaping mouth as I show how to load and shoot a flintlock. I don't mind educating shooters like this, because they become the best source of new flint shooters. And, they just didn't know.

 

[RedFeather]

I think it is very difficult to find a Double Barreled shotgun that will put either barrel shooting a round ball on the POA, using the center bead on the gun.

A gun that will do this is the Pedersoli Kodiak double in .72. I imagine it will shoot RB's. You can buy a set of 12 gauge barrels for it, as well. I have a .54 which I haven't had a chance to mess with yet to see if they are truly regulated to 75 yards, but have seen several posts that support this. They can handle very stout loads, but you pay for this as they are on the heavy side (like most double rifles). I think the Kodiaks are really their 12 gauge with rifled barrels, as the stocks look very much the same. A second downside is you will be paying through the nose for those shotgun barrels, as Pedersoli prices are up there now. Still, if you want it...

 

[tg]

"I had a gentlemen tell me that a fowler does not make a good "shotgun"."

This would depend on the particular fowler as to how it handled wingshooting, many smoothbores are solid duo purpose guns handleing ball and balancing well to follow birds... with flint ignition, others may do well with ball and be less suitable for wingshooting.

 

[sse]

Little clarification, please. So, its only a "fowler" if its a flinter? Mid-19th century percussion pieces are "shotguns"?

Thanks, sse

 

[J.D.]

Chris and Paul are right on. Anyone who thinks flint ignition is slow and fowlers don't handle well have never handeled a well made English fowler, or seen anyone run a string of clay birds with one.

IMHO, french fowlers don't handle as well as their English counterparts.

Those Brits knew how to make a gun.
J.D.

 

[tg]

I believe the term shotgun came into vouge after the percussion cap was common so one could have a caplock "fowler"....there may have even been some resistance to the new terminologyy from the upperclass who supported the fowler market?

 

[Stophel]

I never said a "fowler" could only be flintlock. All I said is that a fowler is a bird gun, not a "general purpose shotgun", and that there are plenty of fine, lightweight, beautifully handling, fast firing flintlock fowling guns designed for taking birds on the wing. English guns, Spanish guns (which the famous English guns are copied after), German guns, French guns, Italian guns... Lots of fine purpose-built flintlock bird guns. Singles and doubles.

I believe I have seen, somewhere, an 18th century reference to a "shot-gun"....

 

[sse]

thank you, gents............

 

[clayman49]

Just had to answer this one. The reason older fowlers had long barrels was because of the quality of the powder and the fact most hunters in thoses days used a much courser powder. Courser powders need a longer barrel to completely burn. Now a days finer powders are used which burn quicker, so can have a shorter barrel. But rifles and smooth bore muskets tend to be longer.