Flintlock or Percussion shooting .... Which is easier?

[Grenadier1758]

Oh, yes, caps do need instructions. You need the following instruction to use caps efficiently.

You need to know the size of the cone on your nipple.
You need to know the proper size of the cap to use.
You need to know how to set the cap on the cone of a nipple.
You need to know how to maintain the cone of a nipple, so the caps fit properly.
You need to know how to keep the flash channel clear so the heat of the cap's ignition can reach the powder charge.
Then of course, there is getting a tiny cap from the tin to the cone. Filling one of those inline cappers is chore that I don't enjoy. That's why I have a Cash oval capper for my rifles.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

Agree with you but again the question was which is simpler, not what you prefer. Give a person a new flintlock without a flint and they will be lost as what to do. I remember when I got my first flintlock. I didn't come with a flint. I did not know I needed a piece of leather to hold the flint in place. I had a heckuva time until someone showed what I needed as to proper size flint I needed and leather and how to get it properly installed. As you said you sharpen your flint every three shots. The vast majority don't know how to do that. Caps don't need special instructions or sharpening.

I am not knocking flintlocks. I enjoy looking at and shooting them also but they are harder to learn and shoot right out of the box. If they were just as easy to shoot they would not have been replaced by the time of the civil war with percussion weapons.

This is true. I've been flinting for so long; I forget these things. At the start there is a longer learning curve in flints. Sometimes I just need a kick in the pants. I wrote this to share with people to try and make things easier for them. Semper Fi.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

Oh, yes, caps do need instructions. You need the following instruction to use caps efficiently.

You need to know the size of the cone on your nipple.
You need to know the proper size of the cap to use.
You need to know how to set the cap on the cone of a nipple.
You need to know how to maintain the cone of a nipple, so the caps fit properly.
You need to know how to keep the flash channel clear so the heat of the cap's ignition can reach the powder charge.
Then of course, there is getting a tiny cap from the tin to the cone. Filling one of those inline cappers is chore that I don't enjoy. That's why I have a Cash oval capper for my rifles.

All this is in the 'Users Manual' that comes with your gun. As Forrest Gump used to say, "If all else fails, read the instructions. Semper Fi.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@ColonialRifleSmith, but then, many used, or previously owned guns don't come with instruction manuals. Many new users need to find a mentor to help through the learning curve.

 

[Hawk54]

Now to stray off the OP's original question some. A nice flintlock rifle is the best looking black powder rifle there is. Flintlocks to me are hands down the best looking. I like the Jaeger style patch box, wide/flatter butt plate, mid to late 1700's Pennsylvania look. Caplocks in my opinion don't compare. Just say'in.

 

[B P Maniac Shooter]

Perhaps I missed it, what is the range of the pins from the bench? Semper Fi.

They were about 20 yards......

 

[Hawk54]

Oh, yes, caps do need instructions. You need the following instruction to use caps efficiently.

You need to know the size of the cone on your nipple.
You need to know the proper size of the cap to use.
You need to know how to set the cap on the cone of a nipple.
You need to know how to maintain the cone of a nipple, so the caps fit properly.
You need to know how to keep the flash channel clear so the heat of the cap's ignition can reach the powder charge.
Then of course, there is getting a tiny cap from the tin to the cone. Filling one of those inline cappers is chore that I don't enjoy. That's why I have a Cash oval capper for my rifles.

My TC .50 Hawken that I purchased new in 1977 and I still have came with a booklet that told what nipple size I had and what caps I needed. Bought the caps and that was it. I didn't need anyone to show me how to put the cap on the nipple (I did have a friend who had a .54 renegade who got me into black powder). It has never once misfired since I bought it and it is on it's second nipple. Doesn't take a genius to replace a nipple.

 

[tenngun]

Caps replaced flint in about twenty years. The advantage of caps is undeniable.
However watching loading vids and live loading of muskets and rifled muskets tge firepower advantage of flint can’t be denied. I’m pretty sure I could get off three rounds with my fusil while a smoothbore cap musket could get off two, same effective range.
I THINK the cheaper OTC flint guns gave flint a bad name.
And there is that learning curve. By 1850 the mysteries of flint were as foreign to the average twenty year old would be shooter as a flint is today. And most people who had a gun in 1770 or 1850 had almost as little experience shooting as a random guy off the street today. And learning to cap a random gun is easier then getting even a great flinter to be reliable

 

[Sidney Smith]

I find I shoot my flint locks more than my percussion lock guns.

Once I fired my first flintlock( over 30 years ago), I haven't fired my percussion gun since.

 

[Grenadier1758]

The Forum gets quite a few threads running about cap lock guns that fail to fire on the first strike, but fire on the second strike. That's not covered in any of the manufacturers' manuals. There are threads where it is determined that he cones on the nipples have a mushroom shaped top and the user doesn't know how to smooth out that enlarged tip.

While it doesn't take a genius to replace a nipple, it takes a bit of learning to know to use anti-seizing lubricant on the threads and to only tighten the nipple to snug to make maintenance easier. Tighten too snug is also not in the instruction manuals.

Once we get past these simple learning steps, cap lock guns are easier to use than a flint lock gun, but both are relatively simple.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

@ColonialRifleSmith, but then, many used, or previously owned guns don't come with instruction manuals. Many new users need to find a mentor to help through the learning curve.

One word. GOOGLE.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@ColonialRifleSmith, Google, Bing or many of the search engines can't find the manual. @Dave Markowitz has been perusing Google for a Seneca manual and can't find one. It is becoming hard to find the old loading manuals put out by Digest Books with such useful information. Perhaps asking a question on the Forum would be helpful.

Maybe we could ask ChatGPT to print out the manual?

 

[user 49399]

Spent some time discussing the differences while shooting a percussion & flint gun.
Enjoy:

Oh, by the way, thanks for the video! I need more black powder videos to watch when I’m not out shooting. Done watched about all the good ones on YouTube, but occasionally I’ll still find something I haven’t seen.

Keep ‘‘em coming!

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

@ColonialRifleSmith, Google, Bing or many of the search engines can't find the manual. @Dave Markowitz has been perusing Google for a Seneca manual and can't find one. It is becoming hard to find the old loading manuals put out by Digest Books with such useful information. Perhaps asking a question on the Forum would be helpful.

Maybe we could ask ChatGPT to print out the manual?

This is the manual included with the T/C Senica Rifle when new. It took me less than 10 minutes to locate and download it. I forwarded it to Dave. Semper Fi.

 

[kyron4]

Respectfully, Sir, if you are looking for "easy" muzzle loading is not the game for you.

"Easy" is a relative term, what's easy for me may be difficult for others. I find muzzleloading to be very easy, it's only difficult if you make it difficult.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

"Easy" is a relative term, what's easy for me may be difficult for others. I find muzzleloading to be very easy, it's only difficult if you make it difficult.

I agree. I've been a flinter for over 50 tears. I've also built over 200 guns and repaired more than I can count. Second nature to me. Semper Fi.

 

[pmihalevich]

I've bought 2 guns in my life, a Mossberg 500 and a Lyman GPR Flintlock. It just felt right.

 

[nchawkeye]

Nonsense. 1) I rarely fumble with caps. 2) As eveidenced on this forum many people struggle with some off the shelf flintlocks with good ignition for many reasons such as soft frizzen, wrong flint, worn flint, hole is too small, etc. 3) Many carry two types of powder for a flintlock. One for pan and one for barrel. Hence two containers of powder. Four F powder is and has been near impossible to find around here. Most any powder was hard to find. Caps around here were harder to find but never unobtainable. 4) Poring the correct amount of powder into the pan just right and closing it, especially in very windy or rain conditions is far harder and more work than a putting a cap on a nipple. 5) Knapping a flint is beyond most new shooters. Even getting a replacement flint to fit correctly is tough. 6) Many new shooters have a tough time holding a flinchlock steady through the flash and ignition. Have seen this and heard it from shooters many times. 7) From many years of experience many new shooters will shoot a percussion much better right from the start with a percussion than a flintlock.

I like and shoot flintlocks but I will acknowledge it takes a different skill set for flintlocks. I know shooters who won't shoot flintlocks for some of the reasons I listed. I have a friend who has many many firearms and he won't touch a flintlock. He does shoot percussion.

Well, I had sense enough to not buy a production flintlock, prefer Siler locks, that eliminates #2...#3 is insignificant as FFF works fine for both the barrel and the pan...#4 is eliminated if you have the touch hole in the proper position when the gun is made as well as it being a "flinchlock" this was a term made up by those why bought the cheap production guns with cheap locks and ill positioned touch holes...I guess the 10 minutes Bob spent with me got me through fitting and knapping a flint, of course that was in 1977...Went to the range and had no problems at all...Now, those cheap percussion guns, I've had to clean the grease out of the drum for fellows who popped a cap or 2 at a deer and was ready to wrap it around a tree when it didn't go off...I've even coned a few touchholes to help powder flow into them...Most ended up removing the nipple and adding powder before hunting..And you think this is "easier", think again...I guess your friend that won't touch a flintlock hasn't had a proper teacher show him how...

 

[S.Kenton]

Spent some time discussing the differences while shooting a percussion & flint gun.
Enjoy:

Another fun video.. thanks Mark! Always enjoy them!

 

[Hawk54]

Well, I had sense enough to not buy a production flintlock, prefer Siler locks, that eliminates #2...#3 is insignificant as FFF works fine for both the barrel and the pan...#4 is eliminated if you have the touch hole in the proper position when the gun is made as well as it being a "flinchlock" this was a term made up by those why bought the cheap production guns with cheap locks and ill positioned touch holes...I guess the 10 minutes Bob spent with me got me through fitting and knapping a flint, of course that was in 1977...Went to the range and had no problems at all...Now, those cheap percussion guns, I've had to clean the grease out of the drum for fellows who popped a cap or 2 at a deer and was ready to wrap it around a tree when it didn't go off...I've even coned a few touchholes to help powder flow into them...Most ended up removing the nipple and adding powder before hunting..And you think this is "easier", think again...I guess your friend that won't touch a flintlock hasn't had a proper teacher show him how...

He doesn't like the flash from the pan. He has been a shooter of many types of weapons for many years and has his own 200 hundred yard rifle range but won't shoot a flintlock. You are just qualifying yourself for 2,3,and 4 as 95 percent of new shooters are not going to be using high quality flintlocks with higher end locks to start with and the vast majority of those will never own a higher end flintlock so we go right back to the beginning. I don't know anyone who shoots percussion rifles that has to add powder to get them to fire. I have six and they all work. You are talking the exception, not the rule.