Flinter/BP?

[Dickert54cal]

What would you recommend as the absolute maximum charge of Goex 3F in a Rice 44" 54 cal. barrel?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Are you shooting Round Ball or Conicals? The barrel is strong enough that you could fill it with powder and it would not crack or destroy the barrel. So when You ask about a " Maximum Charge ", I need to know " for what?" You barrel can probably burn about 140 grains of FFFg, but why would you load that much powder behind a round ball? The largets Black Powder Cartridge made and chambered ( after market ) in the famous, and sturdy Sharpes Breech loading Rifle ( " Quigley Down Under " fame) was the .50-140-550, meanind the cartridge was .50 caliber( yours is .54) it was loaded with 140 grains of Black Powder, and it fired a 550 grain bullet( 437.5 grains to the oz.) Documented shots that fully penetrated the length of an American Bison were made with that gun. But it had brutal recoil( and still does!), and was not a gun for the timid. An 80 grain charge of FFFg powder should serve any hunting need you might have with that gun.

 

[redwing]

I have this same barrel. For mule deer out to 100 yds. or so 90 Grs. For Elk I load 100 to 120 Grs. with an OP wad and PRB. :thumbsup:

 

[Mike Brooks]

You could probably put 400 to 500 grains in it if the ball is seated properly...maybe even more.

 

[Robin Camp]

Your question should be "what is the maximum effective charge". You can fill the barrel with powder and compress it with a patched ball and it will throw out most of the powder unburnt. Since you live in the cold country, wait until there is a skiff of snow on the ground. Start with about 80 grains and increase each load by 5 grains until you see unburnt powder on the snow, then back off about 10 grains.

 

[Ridge]

80 grains works like a champ in mine.

 

[Fullstock58]

I'm going to be a Butthead and say some of the responses to this question is flat wrong/misleading, "Fill the barrel up with powder" "400 or 500 grains of powder" "Look for unburnt powder in the snow then back off a bit"

Accuracy is the determing factor in any load, not how much powder it takes. So start low and slow and work up to the desired accuracy.

 

[Dickert54cal]

The purpose behind my short question was to first get a good laugh from some of the responses--Next, I was planning on using this gun to hunt deer here in PA and possibly an Elk trip in the future. I shoot well enough using 70 gr of 3F out to 50 yards. At 100 I bumped it to 90 gr of 3F....Im wondering if 90 gr of 3F using a 530 round ball and .020 patch lubed with either spit or Leghi Valley Lube will do the job on Elk?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Oh, yeah, it will kill an Elk with that kind of load. Just don't shoot an Elk that is standing in front of a second Elk. You might be killing two Elk.

 

[Dickert54cal]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I love elk meat so thats just dandy! :hmm:

 

[MikeChapin]

....Im wondering if 90 gr of 3F using a 530 round ball and .020 patch lubed with either spit or Leghi Valley Lube will do the job on Elk?

I've shot them for years with 80 grains 3F. Never had any of them go more than 25 yards most just go right down. Inside 50 yards the ball will go all the way through most of the time. I use spit for target work but use the greasy stuff when I'm hunting.

 

[roundball]

Im wondering if 90 gr of 3F using a 530 round ball and .020 patch lubed with either spit or Leghi Valley Lube will do the job on Elk?

IMO, a 230grn lead ball through the heart will get it done for sure...need to be able to reliably hit a grapfruit at 100yds under hunting conditions...worse case, a low double lung shot

 

The purpose behind my short question was to first get a good laugh from some of the responses--Next, I was planning on using this gun to hunt deer here in PA and possibly an Elk trip in the future. I shoot well enough using 70 gr of 3F out to 50 yards. At 100 I bumped it to 90 gr of 3F....Im wondering if 90 gr of 3F using a 530 round ball and .020 patch lubed with either spit or Leghi Valley Lube will do the job on Elk?

That ought to do it. I use ~80 gr ffg myself in my .54s (one Getz, one Rice bbl). Don't see why 90 gr fffg would be unsafe, just unnecessary.

 

[tg]

"....Im wondering if 90 gr of 3F using a 530 round ball and .020 patch lubed with either spit or Leghi Valley Lube will do the job on Elk? "

I would be comfortable hunting Elk with that load in a .54 but would hold my shots to 80 yds, it is always best to get close to Elk when possible, as for shooting over snow to determine how much powder is wasted, you probably know about that old wives tale, there may be some unburnt powder on the snow or the wives white sheet but also a lot of residue/fouling, this trick is good campfire talk but accomplished little in working up a load.

 

[Dickert54cal]

Thanks!! Im going to call Don G tomorrow to bend his ear for a while and get his opinion---You all have been a great help. :thumbsup:

 

[Stumpkiller]

What would you recommend as the absolute maximum charge of Goex 3F in a Rice 44" 54 cal. barrel?

I have a "C" profile 44" L.C. Rice barrel in .54 that is my whitetail (& squirrel & bunny) rifle. I use 3F as the prime and main charge, but my charge measures 84gr as weighed on an RCBS scale. That is moderate (IMHO) and does fine on 200 lb deer. I would have no qualms about that load on larger game, but I would wait for the proper shot. As I do on any game.

I hesitate to give anyone what would be the maximum load in my mind, as the maximum might not be the same for different lubes, cleaning and loading variations, touch hole size, ball hardness (if home cast), etc., etc. I would never exceed 100 grains of 3F in a .54 even if it was dangerous game. You'll never achieve the hydrostatic shock of modern bullets and a hole through both sides is hard to improve on. If things don't work out and you punch into both shoulder bones at their thickest . . . a few extra grains probably wouldn't carry the day anyhow. Better to catch both lungs low and steal it's breath.

 

[juancho]

I don't know about maximun load, but i've been doing some testing last weekend with slugs out of my 45 pensylvania.Not sure what to expect I started with 30 grains at 25 yds.That is my normal load for squirrels with PRB.Not satisfied went to my "big" load of 60 grs and found to be exelent, not noticing any drop compared to PRB out to 100 yds.Was using 285 grn slugs from remingtong.For final testing for accuracy I seted up a Tim Hortons medium size cup at 100 yds, and shot it with 2 PRB hitting it in the midle as I knew it would.Next was the slug (did not compensate at all the elevation 'couse I wanted to see how much it would drop), it hit dead center in between the other two holes.As for penetration goes, four 2x4 were not enough to stop it at 25 yds.
I do all my hunting with PRB , but I am planing a solo trip this fall into bear territory, and being 5 miles from the closest road and out of cell phone reach, I need the psycological reassurance of enough stoping power.By the way those were hollow point hollow base (kind of minie bullets).So I tried loading one in reverse with that huge gaping hole facing forward.the POI at 25 yds is the same but the efect ,at least on wood, is so devastating that ,I belive, it can be compare with the hydrostatic shock found on modern cartriges.Need to do more testing but so far it looks good.

 

[faw3]

Your plan being a little like mine I would strongly recomend you dont count on your rifle to stop a bear if you run into one. Im carrying a extra "fast change"(about 3 seconds) barrel in 62 cal, as well as a twin 62 handgun, but Im looking for bear. Fred :hatsoff: (only one will be flintlock and its 58 cal,the fast change is a H+A underhammer.)

 

[juancho]

Yes, I know,my last resource is a over&under 3"magnum 12 ga. with magnum holow point slugs.Not a muzzleloader but i'm sure it does the trick.If I have it my way it will not see any action!

 

[paulvallandigham]

I would think that a conical in that .45 should do fairly well on bear, particularly the Black Bear you are likely to run into in PA. I would encourage you to try increasing that powder charge to 70 grains to see what you get in velocity and accuracy. Any shot at a bear is more likely to take place in the woods at less than 35 yds, so I don't think you have any worries in the accuracy department. What is the nose shape of that conical you are using? If its flat, it might actually upset and expand a little if it strikes bone in the bear. Any expansion is going to dump velocity and energy to produce massive shock to the internal organs of the bear. That is a good think, as it is likely to cause the bear to become unconscious, while it hemorrhages to death.

A couple of years back, a writer in a Gun Magazine used a .45-70 Marlin Cartridge gun, loaded with a .430 grain CorBon bullet, and a enough smokeless powder to drive the bullet out the muzzle at about 2000 fps. He used the gun to kill a large Cape Buffalo, and a smaller cow buffalo standing on the other side of the bull, which neither he nor the Professional Hunter with him saw. The slug went through more than 3 feet of tissue to do that, obviously, in the two buffalo. So, I don't think you have much to worry about your conical's ability to penetrate deep into a bear to destroy vital organs. If you are comfortable with that 60 grain charge, and shoot it well, then stick with it. Accurate placement of your bullet is far more important than lots of power, that will be expended on the ground on the other side of the game animal, after it blows through the animal, wneh trying to kill a large animal like a bear.