Finally got it out. Using about 65 grains of triple seven and patches lube with 4-1 ratio of ballistol to water and a .490 lead ball. First thing I noticed, using the .015 size patch it was very difficult to get it in the barrel so switched to the .012 patches. (both ticking material from wal-mart) Picked up some of my patches and they were shredded, the .012 worse so then the .015 ones. The caps were all split to, is that normal? I was getting about 1 minute of pie plate accuracy which I am not too worried about yet. I have heard the GPR's are sharp and rough on patches. Any comments appreciated.
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Finally shot my GPR, some questions.
- Thread starter mto7464
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Richard McCullough
40 Cal.
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Hello,
Caps splitting after being fired is normal. Your patches should stop shredding after you shoot more. How much more? could be a 100 rounds more or less.
Caps splitting after being fired is normal. Your patches should stop shredding after you shoot more. How much more? could be a 100 rounds more or less.
Shoot it and around 100 or so shots it should smooth out.
Mine requires a cloth patch over the powder then a lubed patched round ball. I also swab with a damp patch between shots to keep the fouling soft and the bore a little cleaner for the next shot.
Don't worry about where the round balls are hitting on the target. For now concentrate on shooting the rifle until your patches come out in good shape.
Then you can start trying different patches, lubes, and round balls.
When you get your best load and you get your tightest groups, then you can starting drifting or filing your sights to bring the round balls into the x ring.
Enjoy that new rifle. Vearl
Mine requires a cloth patch over the powder then a lubed patched round ball. I also swab with a damp patch between shots to keep the fouling soft and the bore a little cleaner for the next shot.
Don't worry about where the round balls are hitting on the target. For now concentrate on shooting the rifle until your patches come out in good shape.
Then you can start trying different patches, lubes, and round balls.
When you get your best load and you get your tightest groups, then you can starting drifting or filing your sights to bring the round balls into the x ring.
Enjoy that new rifle. Vearl
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mto, that GPR was and unfired NOS, right?
The loading difficulties might be associated with old factory rust protector in the bore. If you didn't give the bore a real good cleaning with a solvent like brake cleaner or carburetor cleaner, you should give that a try.
The loading difficulties might be associated with old factory rust protector in the bore. If you didn't give the bore a real good cleaning with a solvent like brake cleaner or carburetor cleaner, you should give that a try.
I agree with the other posts.
Percussion caps usually split when they are fired.
This is a good thing as those that don't split and remain firmly on the nipple can be very hard to remove. Reloading a gun with the cap still clinging to the nipple is a PITA, usually requiring a knife to pry the stuck cap off.
Triple 7 is a hotter burning, more powerful muzzleloading powder. It was initially developed for the non-traditinal guns that shoot non-traditional projectiles that are shot without patches.
Burned patches are pretty common when they are shot with this powder. This is especially true if the patches are lubricated and allowed to dry before they are loaded.
As was mentioned, the Lyman guns barrels are protected by the factory with some unusually hard to remove grease. Until this grease is removed, accuracy will be poor.
Rifles with square groove rifling almost always has razor sharp edges as it comes from the factory.
Shooting 100-150 shots thru it will usually wear off the sharp edges making it much less likely that they will cut the cloth patch.
This "dulling" process can be speeded up by wrapping a small amount of #00 or #000 steel wool around the cleaning jag on a rod and running it up and down the bore.
The steel wool is about the same hardness as the barrel steel so it will dull up the sharp edges without actually changing the size of the bore and its rifling.
Another source of cut patches is the crown at the muzzle.
This is usually machined and deburred at the factory but the edges of the rifling and bore are often left very sharp.
These sharp edges can easily cut the patch while the patch and ball are being started into the muzzle.
To remove this potential problem, buy a piece of 220 or 320 grit wet/dry (black) sandpaper.
Tare off a 1" X 1" piece and lay it on the muzzle.
Use your thumb to push the center of the paper down into the bore and then rotate your hand/thumb back and forth while you slowly rotate the barrel.
It usually takes a few pieces of paper but when your done, all of the sharp edges will be nicely rounded off so they will never cut your patch again.
IMO, your patch material must be thick enough to be compressed into the grooves of the rifling.
Your rifling grooves are .010 deep on your GPR so one might think that some .012 thick patches could fill it tightly but remember, your using a .490 diameter ball.
Adding .490 + .012 (patch on one side of the ball) + .012 (patch on the other side of the ball) gives a uncompressed patch and ball diameter of .514.
Adding the .500 diameter bore size with the .010 depth of the rifling gives a size of .500 + .010 (rifling on one side of the ball) + .010 (rifling on the other side of the ball) results in a rifling groove diameter of .520.
Obviously, the .514 diameter patch & ball won't seal a .520 diameter groove.
Even using good old black powder, the resulting gap will allow the flame from the powder charge to blow past the patch and burn it badly.
Add to this the use of T7 and it is much worse.
* To sum up, dull up your rifling edges and the sharp corners at the muzzle.
* Use the .015 thick patches with your .490 diameter ball.
* Use slightly damp patches, not dry patches.
* Try putting some non-combustable filler over the powder charge to keep the heat away from your patch. 10-20 grains (by volume) of corn meal or Cream of Wheat will help.
PS: If you switch from T7 to real black powder or Pyrodex and use the tight ball/patch combination, fillers won't be needed to prevent burning the patch.
Oh, the shot patch will always look tattered around the edges. If the important part where the ball meets the bore isn't torn or burned, the ball/patch/powder combination is good to go.
Percussion caps usually split when they are fired.
This is a good thing as those that don't split and remain firmly on the nipple can be very hard to remove. Reloading a gun with the cap still clinging to the nipple is a PITA, usually requiring a knife to pry the stuck cap off.
Triple 7 is a hotter burning, more powerful muzzleloading powder. It was initially developed for the non-traditinal guns that shoot non-traditional projectiles that are shot without patches.
Burned patches are pretty common when they are shot with this powder. This is especially true if the patches are lubricated and allowed to dry before they are loaded.
As was mentioned, the Lyman guns barrels are protected by the factory with some unusually hard to remove grease. Until this grease is removed, accuracy will be poor.
Rifles with square groove rifling almost always has razor sharp edges as it comes from the factory.
Shooting 100-150 shots thru it will usually wear off the sharp edges making it much less likely that they will cut the cloth patch.
This "dulling" process can be speeded up by wrapping a small amount of #00 or #000 steel wool around the cleaning jag on a rod and running it up and down the bore.
The steel wool is about the same hardness as the barrel steel so it will dull up the sharp edges without actually changing the size of the bore and its rifling.
Another source of cut patches is the crown at the muzzle.
This is usually machined and deburred at the factory but the edges of the rifling and bore are often left very sharp.
These sharp edges can easily cut the patch while the patch and ball are being started into the muzzle.
To remove this potential problem, buy a piece of 220 or 320 grit wet/dry (black) sandpaper.
Tare off a 1" X 1" piece and lay it on the muzzle.
Use your thumb to push the center of the paper down into the bore and then rotate your hand/thumb back and forth while you slowly rotate the barrel.
It usually takes a few pieces of paper but when your done, all of the sharp edges will be nicely rounded off so they will never cut your patch again.
IMO, your patch material must be thick enough to be compressed into the grooves of the rifling.
Your rifling grooves are .010 deep on your GPR so one might think that some .012 thick patches could fill it tightly but remember, your using a .490 diameter ball.
Adding .490 + .012 (patch on one side of the ball) + .012 (patch on the other side of the ball) gives a uncompressed patch and ball diameter of .514.
Adding the .500 diameter bore size with the .010 depth of the rifling gives a size of .500 + .010 (rifling on one side of the ball) + .010 (rifling on the other side of the ball) results in a rifling groove diameter of .520.
Obviously, the .514 diameter patch & ball won't seal a .520 diameter groove.
Even using good old black powder, the resulting gap will allow the flame from the powder charge to blow past the patch and burn it badly.
Add to this the use of T7 and it is much worse.
* To sum up, dull up your rifling edges and the sharp corners at the muzzle.
* Use the .015 thick patches with your .490 diameter ball.
* Use slightly damp patches, not dry patches.
* Try putting some non-combustable filler over the powder charge to keep the heat away from your patch. 10-20 grains (by volume) of corn meal or Cream of Wheat will help.
PS: If you switch from T7 to real black powder or Pyrodex and use the tight ball/patch combination, fillers won't be needed to prevent burning the patch.
Oh, the shot patch will always look tattered around the edges. If the important part where the ball meets the bore isn't torn or burned, the ball/patch/powder combination is good to go.
I'm going to assume that Lyman barrels are pretty much the same bore diameter. I use .018 patches in mine with the .490 and .015 with the .495. It is not a easy start load but it shoots very well.
I will add that I tried Pyrodex but my rifle prefers real black powder. but then again I do too! Geo. T.
I will add that I tried Pyrodex but my rifle prefers real black powder. but then again I do too! Geo. T.
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I put a patch on the cleaning jag, then wrap the patch with a thin layer of fine steel wool (000 or 0000). A half dozen full strokes up and down is all that's needed.
I'm using .495 balls and .018 ticking with great results in mine. Starts a bit hard, but glides down smooth after that. So far it's been wicked accurate with that combo over 70-89 grains of Grafs 3f. Mines a flinter though.
I'm using olive oil as a lube, and squeezing the excess out with a big c clamp and two pieces of poplar....leaving them pretty dry feeling.
I'm using olive oil as a lube, and squeezing the excess out with a big c clamp and two pieces of poplar....leaving them pretty dry feeling.
Mickc01
45 Cal.
I'm mostly a flinter but I do have a percussion GPR. In my experience, the caps splitting is a very good thing. Otherwise you're often left prying the buggers off.
After lots of testing I found that 20/10 WSW fluid works just great for the target and plinking loads that I shoot most of the time. There is no need to clean after every shot, actually I can shoot all day and never clean the bore. For my hunting load I use 115gr of Goex 2f and I put a felt overpowder wad on top of that and then lube my patch with mink oil.My patches always look good and the rifle is one accurate son of a gun!!!!! I also learned the hard way not to use anything but real blackpowder.Keeping it simple works for me. Frank
Billnpatti
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I thought I was going to give you a nice clear and complete answer. :hmm: Then I read Zonie's answer and he really covered the subject thoroughly. :thumbsup: Read his answer and take it to heart because it is dead on. :thumbsup: :hatsoff:
Billnpatti
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I am pretty sure that what he is talking abut is a 20 part WSW (windshield washer) fluid to 10 parts water. I am not sure why he used the term 20/10 rather than saying a 2 to 1 dilution of windshield washer fluid in water? Let's wait for him to answer but I am pretty sure that is what he means.
Billnpatti
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Ah-Ha!! I feel the scales of ignorance falling from my eyes. :bow: I have never seen that brand of windshield washer fluid. Does that brand offer any particular advantage over other brands? :hmm: :idunno:
Enfield Musketoon
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My 54 caliber Lyman Great Plains also had very sharp rifling.... I used some JB Bore Compound and watched a movie while I ran the JKB back and forth through the bore.
Then I cleaned the heck out of it...
Mine is also very particular about the patch thickness when it comes to accuracy.
Eventually it turned out that it liked a .020 patch that was lubed with wonder Lube and a .530 ball. For some reason that rifle likes Pyrodex RS better than FFG Goex. I get 1900 fps with 120 grains by volume.
Then I cleaned the heck out of it...
Mine is also very particular about the patch thickness when it comes to accuracy.
Eventually it turned out that it liked a .020 patch that was lubed with wonder Lube and a .530 ball. For some reason that rifle likes Pyrodex RS better than FFG Goex. I get 1900 fps with 120 grains by volume.
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