Details on my new to me .54 cal plains style rifle

[Nitsudttesrod]

About a two months ago I acquired .54 caliber custom plains style rifle. So far I have assembled all supplies needed to get her smoking and have settled on a .535 round ball with .023" denim patches lubed with Dutch's dry patch system on top of 90gr of pyrodex select. I would love to try the real black powder stuff but here in Houston TX its pretty much impossible to find and at this time I don't want to lay out the cash to buy in bulk from the online retailers. I'm still in the process of developing the load but I'm consistently shooting about a 3" group right now after two sessions at the range at about 3 hours per session. And yes, I wipe between each shot with a dampened .011" patch. After the second range session I removed the barrel and lock to clean/ inspect for any rusting and found that the barrel is a 1:66" twist GR Douglas XX and the lock is a "Cherry Corners" lock. Everything looked ok but I have ordered a main spring vise so I can disassemble the lock to give it a thorough cleaning/lube. Are these barrels quality barrels and does anyone know anything about Cherry Corners locks? Here's some pics of my rifle.

 

[stubshaft]

Good looking rifle.

 

[Herb]

I think the XX means the barrel did not require straightening, it is a premium barrel. It is as good as any. Cherry Corners parts are also excellent. Shooting Pyrodex, your bore does not require wiping for your shooting session, no matter how many shots, but it does need very good cleaning immediately afterwards. If you have any slow ignition, get a Hot Shot nipple. You have a well made, nice looking rifle.

 

[Nitsudttesrod]

Thanks guys, Herb, you're from Vernal, I've been there for work a couple of years ago for about a month. I'm in the oil & gas industry. I liked it up there, nice little town.

 

[will5a1]

I love that wood - you have one fine looking rifle there, hope you are able to get some real black soon.

Wonder who D. Lange was/is?

 

[Tom Compton]

Powder available at Texas MLRA shoots in March, June and October Location Brady Tx. Won't quote $ for vendors but very reasonable last October. I'm near Austin but several TMLRA members in Houston area.

I've won 7 Tx state championships plus LA, Mississippi and Tennessee using Douglas barrels. Beautiful gun.
TC

 

[Dr5x]

I didn't know Douglas Barrels were still available.

. This must be at least 20 or so years old. ..

Try shimming a few sheets of paper between Ball and patch to see what effect that will have. a 3" group usually means your patching might be a wee bit too thin.

That's an amazing piece of wood.

Black powder is corrosive but pyordex is more so.
The end of day cleaning is even more important with pyrodex

Congratulations on getting fine Old Rifle.

Dutch

 

[Nitsudttesrod]

I don't know who D Lange is/was. The gentleman I acquired the rifle from was from Colorado so I'm guessing D Lange is from there as well. From the little research I have done it seems that Cherry Corners was an early maker of Hawken components (1970's?). The lock seems to be in good condition, it just has some grimy old grease stuck in locations that will need a full disassembly to clean up. Is grease or oil preferred as a lock lubricant?

 

[Nitsudttesrod]

I'd love to become a TX MLRA member, however, I often work 70, 80 and sometimes 100 hours a week so I would have little time to participate in any events. Nonetheless I'd still like to become a member, I'd love to compete. I've got a lot of work to do though to be able to shoot clover leaf patterns.

 

[Nitsudttesrod]

Mr.Schoultz, thank you for your accuracy system, without it I'd be wondering aimlessly. I believe this rifle was probably made in the 70's or early 80's. She is a beauty and now my most treasured gun, truly an heirloom.

Here's some of my targets from my last trip to the range, I was playing around with the amount of powder loaded. Unfortunately the range I have access to doesn't allow shooters to go out on the range so I cannot examine my fired patches. I've gotta find another range! Ideally I'd like to buy a property where but that will have to wait until the day I get rich :rotf:

I'm still getting fliers but its getting better, my first trip to the range I used .530 ball, .018 patches and started with 80 grns of powder. I was hitting all over the place sometimes on target others not haha. Now that I've stepped up to using .535 balls with .023 denim patches I'm grouping much better but I still have work to do.

 

[Nitsudttesrod]

BTW those targets are all at 50 yards from the bench.

 

[azmntman]

At 70-80 and 100 hrs a week :shocked2: you should get rich real quick. However....consider the cost. When I was a younger man I coveted overtime. It was my favorite word, (now self employed), I would demand COMP time over over time everytime! After all at 100 hrs a week yer NOT gonna feel like enjoying yer off time.

Using the Dutch system is great, keep at it and yer groups will continue to shrink!

NOW GET BACK TO WORK! :blah:

 

[will5a1]

I think, and I could be off by several years on this, that Cherry Corners sold their stock of Hawken parts, dies and tooling to Ithaca in 1976 and Ithaca then started production on the Ithaca Hawken, some of which have Cherry Corners marked locks. As best as I can remember Douglas was out of the muzzleloading barrel business by 1980, maybe 1978 - I'm basing both these statements on old articles and ads from the Buckskin Report, I'd have to dig through my old copies to get more specific and I don't have the time now to do a search.

In any case your well built, good looking rifle used quality components from the mid to late 1970's, though the builder may have assembled the rifle much latter. The wood (quilted maple?) and the shape of the butt and toe look similar to an unsigned Sharon I have, a picture should be here:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showpost.php?post/1491288/

I bet someone recalls D. Lange, assuming he was the builder, his work looks to be too good to have gone unnoticed.

Enjoy your fine rifle, I'm sure those groups will start to shrink.

 

[Nitsudttesrod]

Thanks for the info and yes, our rifles are very similar! I think it is a quilted maple stock, I couldn't pass it up when I saw it. It is kind of concerning that Cherry Corners is no longer in operation because if anything goes wrong with the mechanisms on the lock it will most likely be very hard to find parts or a replacement lock.

 

[Tom Compton]

You're not far off Will. I had Douglas cut a .50 cal 1"x36" barrel w a 56 twist a couple of years after our son was born in '81 to go with a precarved stock I bought from a MM store in Manitou Springs, that was '82, so 1983 (?). Anyway that could have been a blank from old inventory, too.

 

[Nitsudttesrod]

A question for you guys: How does one accurately gauge the land and groove diameters in a barrel? I have some dial calipers and have gotten the following measurements: Land 1- .543", Groove 1- .566", Land 2- .543", Groove 2- .565", Land 3- .543", Groove 3- .563", Land 4- .541", Groove 4- .566". Using the dial calipers these measurements are taken only at the very end of the muzzle. Say, for the sake of discussion, these measurements are accurate would it be beneficial to get a custom made ball mould that produces balls which are exactly .54"?

 

[Black Hand]

Say, for the sake of discussion, these measurements are accurate would it be beneficial to get a custom made ball mould that produces balls which are exactly .54"?

What about your patching? Too thin of a material could rip, negating your gas-seal. Go with a .530 or .535 and adjust your patching...

 

[FishDFly]

Powder available at Texas MLRA shoots in March, June and October Location Brady Tx. Won't quote $ for vendors but very reasonable last October. I'm near Austin but several TMLRA members in Houston area.

I've won 7 Tx state championships plus LA, Mississippi and Tennessee using Douglas barrels. Beautiful gun.
TC

What did you win them in???

 

[Zonie]

A question for you guys:...

Say, for the sake of discussion, these measurements are accurate would it be beneficial to get a custom made ball mould that produces balls which are exactly .54"?

If you plan on shooting balls, you don't want them to be .54 diameter.

Muzzleloading rifles that shoot balls use a cloth (or leather) patch to seal the rifling grooves and to tightly hold the ball so the ball will spin as it travels down the barrel.

Most commonly, the balls used in a .54 caliber rifle will be .530 or .535 diameter.

These are loaded with a lubricated cloth patch that is anywhere from .015 to .020+ thick.

If the ball was .540 diameter, there would be no place for the patch to exist between the ball and the bore.

 

[will5a1]

A question for you guys: How does one accurately gauge the land and groove diameters in a barrel?"

The most common, and accurate enough method to determine bore diameter is to slug it. There are various ways to go about this, the easiest way I know of is to drop a brass drift down the clean barrel, push a couple of waxed and wadded up patches 4-5 inches down the bore, a bore button (fiber wad) works great if you have some, then melt and pour a product called cerrosafe (sp?) down the bore to form a slug. Some guys prefer to melt lead, some guys upset a lead ball in the bore, or use an oversize lead ball, but the cerrosafe is easy.

It cools quickly, turn the barrel over and the weight of the brass drift will usually push the slug right out onto a scrap piece of blanket wool. Wait an hour for the slug stabilize then measure the lands and grooves.

As Zonie pointed out above you need to use a ball under bore diameter to provide for the patching, keep playing with your patch material, thickness and lube. Have you tried a wet patches, say spit or moose milk? Maybe mink oil? You will find a combination that works if you keep at it.