Delay In Ignition

[ib4elk]

Took my new 54 Lyman GPR out this afternoon - finally got some time. I fired two caps prior to loading which went off just fine. I then loaded it, put the cap on and there was a noticeable delay between the cap and the powder going off. One or two shots went quickly but most had a delay - maybe 1/4 to 1/2 second? On more than one occasion the cap would go off but not the powder and I would have to put another cap on and then it would fire. One particular time it just would not go, even after 4 caps. I pulled the nipple, made sure it was clean, put a few grains of powder in the hole and put the nipple back on - fired instantly that time.

I was told the rifle was only proof shot 2 times before I got it. I am shooting Hodgdon 777 FFG powder. I have had the powder for 4-5 months but it has been stored in a cool dry place. When loading, the hammer was at half cock and I was loading 70 grains of powder.

I also was having issues with caps not firing. I plan to check how the hammer is coming down on the nipple as described under a previous thread - "Shooting Issues" but don't think this would be a reason for a delay in the powder igniting??

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[mooman76]

777 doesn't fire off as easy as some powders. Some people don't have problems but some do. You might try magnum caps if you aren't using them. Hot shot nipples help sometimes or even just a new nipple. Also you might try tapping the rifle near the breech to settle the powder and get it toward the nipple.

 

[Zonie]

Perhaps you already know this but here's some suggestions.

Before loading, remove the nipple and run a pipe cleaner (the kind used to clean smoking pipes) down thru the fire channel hole.
This will make sure the channel is open and no oil has accumulated in the channel. Many dip the pipe cleaner into some denatured alcohol to help it remove any oil.

Popping a couple of caps on the nipple before loading is standard procedure and its worth doing.

Before you pour your powder down the barrel, make sure the nipple is uncapped and the hammer is at the half cock position.

This produces a vent for the air that's trapped under the patched ball or bullet.
When the projectile is rammed down to the powder, the air that's inside the barrel will blow the loose powder into the flame channel so it often ends up right below the nipple.

As you noted, if there is powder directly under the nipple, ignition is almost instantaneous.

When using a synthetic black powder, using the "Magnum" caps often helps to reduce hang fires.
One non magnum cap that also works well is the RCBS (Dynamite Nobel) #11 caps.
They have long been known for their power.

The only other good advice I can give is, learn to "follow thru", holding the sights on target while you wait for the gun to fire.

Becoming a master of doing this will help you shoot all of your guns better.

 

[jethro224]

Zonie and the others gave good advice.

I would immediately order a new replacement nipple. The Ampco bronze worked very well for me. Hotshot is also very good. There may be others that are just as good but the stock Lyman nipple is not one of them.

This is gonna get nay-sayers but, I would also get some real blackpowder.

Do these things and your problem will almost certainly stop.

In the meanwhile do like Zonie said and use that 777 to shoot and practice on your follow-thru. By the time that powder is gone and you get some real black you will be an amazingly good shot.

 

[MacRob46]

I would move to black powder. 777 can be hard to ignite and fouls as badly as black powder. Running a nipple pick made from fine wire into the hole of the nipple will also help. When shooting my GRRW Leman I do that every few shots and, other than one time when I first bought it and there was excessive oil in the nipple, in the 45 years I have been shooting the gun, I have never had a hang fire.

 

[Rat Trapper]

I use the hotshot nipples and a pick for the nipple comes in handy once in a while. Keep an eye on the nipple as once in a while you can get some stuff from the cap that wants to plug it. Thats when the pick comes in handy. As posted above, try to tap a little powder into the area under the nipple before you run the ball down.

 

[Kapow]

See if your rifle likes FFFg at all. It will flow into the flash channel a little easier and give the side of the stock a couple of slaps after you pour your powder charge in to help it settle in. Definitely throw that stock nipple into the lake. I like the spitfire & hotshot nipples. Putting the hammer to half cock? Never even occurred to me but it makes perfect sense.

 

[azmntman]

Kapow is right, go with fffg in T7 if you can. But real BP will likely solve all yer issues. And if its hard to find just get a lil and drop 10 gr BP down and then finish the load with T7 (I do this on my flinters and it works excellent)1 lb BP at 10 grs a pop will last a LOOONG time.

 

[AZbpBurner]

If you've got a large supply of 777, get a can of Black Powder. subtract 10 grains from your powder charge, and dispense 10 grains BP into the bore. Now measure and pour the 777. This should give you instant ignition. I use a kicker charge of BP in my Lyman flintlocks whenever I use Pyrodex, and get instant ignition every time.

I also tap the barre with a wooden mallet after pouring the powder. It ensures the powder is packed better in the patent breech, and gives more consistent ignition.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Good advice all around. The only thing I would add is that often inadequate or improper cleaning is the culprit. A carbon wall or dam can be created in the flash channel causing a hang or misfire. When I clean with hot soapy water I always make sure the nipple is removed. When running a tight patch up and down the barrel water should enter and exit the barrel with enough velocity that on the down stroke water will shoot from the nipple hole clear across the room, like a giant squirt gun.
Also I had a gun that despite every effort it had inconsistent ignition. I took a very,very small drill bit one number size bigger than the flash hole in the nipple and opened the nipple flash hole up a little bit. Problem solved!

 

[ib4elk]

Thanks all. I plan to get some real BP shortly and will plan to replace the nipple. I am almost out of the 777 so timing will be good to go to the real stuff.

 

[crockett]

One other thing that hasn't been mentioned. If possible, when you snap a cap to clear the nipple, point the muzzle near some soft sand or tall grass. The blast of the cap alone should be powerful enough to move either some sand or the tall grass- have the muzzle maybe 1 foot away.

 

[bpd303]

I think this assessment is probably correct. The patent breech doesn't take much fouling to prevent the powder from reaching the flash channel. Of the two guns I have seen with the same problem, a .22 caliber bore brush used to clean out the patent breech solved the problem.

 

[cowpoke1955]

Sub powders have a higher ignition point than real black powder. If you are going to use sub powders, try some #11 magnum caps. Another thing to try is changing your nioole to a Hot Shot or Spitfire nipple: http://www.cainsoutdoor.com/shop/item.asp?item=14128 . They are designed to deliver a bigger flash to thr powder charge. I have the Spitfire on my .54 GPR and .54 Trade Rifle. Never had a misfire with black powder or Pyrodex. Just a thought :v :v

 

[Rat Trapper]

One other thing that hasn't been mentioned. If possible, when you snap a cap to clear the nipple, point the muzzle near some soft sand or tall grass. The blast of the cap alone should be powerful enough to move either some sand or the tall grass- have the muzzle maybe 1 foot away.

Better still, is to run a patch down the barrel and leave the patch & rod in the barrel while you pop some caps. When you pull the patch out it should have some burn on the bottom. If not you need to clean it some more.

 

[Billnpatti]

Remove your barrel from the stock, remove the nipple and immerse the breach end of the barrel in a bucket of warm soapy water. Wet a patch and run the cleaning rod all the way to the breach. Pump soapy water into the barrel through the nipple hole. This will remove any crud that has built up in the patent breach. Rinse the barrel with clear water and dry with several dry patches. Spray the bore with WD-40 and allow it to remove any residual water. Wipe out the bore thoroughly with some dry patches to remove all of the WD-40. Then run a patch with some good gun oil on it through the bore. This will have your bore good and clean. Before shooting, thoroughly wipe out your bore with some dry patches to remove all of the oil. snap a couple caps to be sure that your flash channel is open and then load and fire. You should have no problem with ignition. Dump the 777 and use 3f black powder only. A new Ampco nipple and some #11 magnum caps will be some good insurance.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

change to 3f T7 and get a hollow base spitfire nipple from cabelas. That or just go with real black powder.

 

[stinkyfeet]

I fired the gun using 75 grains 3f schuetzen real black powder, and cci magnum #11's and it went off fine without delay after it was built. Maybe it doesn't like the fake stuff or the caps your using aren't hot enough.

 

[robertmcw]

I used 777 for YEARS for my pistols with 3fff with good results. I was using 777 with 2ff with my Hawkens and I had just a delay but I thought it was just the beast. I used 777 in my inline and it works just fine. Then about 3 years back I was hunting with my cap Hawken with 777 and 2fff and I was shooting at a deer in the extra deer season for muzzleloader only and it went ”˜click’ ”˜pop’ wait ”˜boom’ and I flinched and missed a deer from less than 30 yards and it was in the high 20’s that day. I got down and finally got calmed down and cleaned the gun and it seemed it took about spring to warm up. I then ordered a case of Swiss 2ff and now the delay is gone and it goes off right away. As a side with 777 in my flintlock it seems you can hear the fizzle before it goes off. With the Swiss and null B powder sometimes there is no delay at all. I am still working on that flint lock to get the delay to have it go away.

It is just me but I do not like or use 777 on my side lock guns and I and my guns do like Swiss on them.

 

[MSW]

if you can get a flinter to fire with 777 at all, I'd say that you're doing well ... tried several years back with only limited success to make this happen with kicker charges (it was, if I remember, about ten or fifteen grains of FFFg, then the 777, then the patched round ball) ... this worked OK, but it was easier and cheaper to use real black powder, which is (insert anti government tirade here) harder and harder to get.