Correct load for .54 Hawken

[markmahaney]

Now that I have my ignition problem solved (thanks to all who replied) I am wondering what a proper load is for this rifle. Cabela's provided a manual with loading data, but I am not sure which chart applies. I am shooting patched round balls, .535 in diameter. I plan on using Triple seven or Pyrodex. The chart labeled " Pyrodex rifle data" states 80 grains Pyrodex R/S. The chart labeled "Black Powder rifle data" states 100 grains G-O ffg. And the chart labeled "Black Powder loading data Reproduction rifles/muskets" states 50grains G-O ffg, with 20% reduction in load for Pyrodex. Is a Cabela's Hawken rifle considered a Reproduction? Is 50 grains Pyrodex as high as I should go? Or is 80 grains a safe load for this rifle? Any and all comments welcome. Thanks!

 

[BrownBear]

That 80 grain Pyrodex RS load is considered mild to moderate by lots of folks. It's plenty for deer, but not as powerful as the 100 grain GO ffg load. A charge of 50 grains of GO ffg is what most folks would consider a range or target load. Be sure to read the label on the Triple Seven if you opt to use it. It says to reduce charges something like 15% from recommended black powder or Pyrodex charges due to the higher energy of the Triple Seven. I say "something like" because I don't remember for sure, so it's up to you to do the reading.

I like those rifles, and in fact have one in 58 caliber. They're made by Investarms in Italy by the same folks that make Lymans.

If I can ask, where did you get the manual? I'm searching for one for my 58.

 

[Zonie]

Sounds to me like the author of their book was grasping at straws.

Pyrodex RS should be loaded using the same amount that one would use with black powder.

Triple seven should be reduced about 20% below a black powder load to give about the same amount of power.

A good starting/plinking load for your .54 would be around 55 grains of 2Fg black powder or Pyrodex RS.

A medium hunting load would range between 70 to 90 grains of 2Fg black powder or Pyrodex RS.
Many have found that their .54 shooting an 80 grain powder load of 2Fg black powder or Pyrodex RS is more than enough to easily take a deer out to 80 yards.

A heavy hunting load like one might use for bear or elk could run between 90 and 110 grains of 2Fg black powder or Pyrodex RS.

The maximum powder load usually given for your .54 is 120 grains of 2Fg black powder or Pyrodex RS.

Some people have found that Pyrodex P or 3Fg black powder burns cleaner.
Either one of these will develop higher velocities than 2Fg black powder or Pyrodex RS so if one is using these powders they should reduce the powder charge about 15%.

 

[necchi]

I had the Cabelas 54 Hawkin for years.
The pet load was indeed 80grns of T7 2f.
Didn't need more, the groups opened up with my PRB combo.
Point is, 80grns of T7 was safe.

Haven't used Pyrodex for years so I can't give you any info there, it's been T7 or the real stuff.
(prefer T-7)

 

[buttonbuck]

the manual that a came with the lyman pistol was ok but could be better. My friend used 80g of subs in a 50 cal hawken but similar rifle but I got him to scale back to 70, better groups at 75 yards. I suggest getting a can of 2f and 3f goex, you can find a good group with the 2f and scale it back by 10% for shooting the 3f. Say 80 of 2f or 70-72 of 3f.

 

[Otter]

My first ML was a Cabela's Hawken in .54 cal. Started shooting it with Pyrodex RS. With the RS, 80 gr was the "sweet spot" load for my rifle with PRB. 100 gr RS for home-cast conicals (Lee REALs) shot same POA. You just have to experiment with different loads to find what your rifle shoots best - some like more powder, some like less. As I recall (and my recollection is always suspect :grin: ), 100 or 120 gr Pyrodex RS was the reccommended max for that rifle. I have since switched to real BP and have not shot any sub in a long while, nor have I shot that rifle in a long while. 777 was not even on the horizon when I made the switch to BP, so I can give no advice for that.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Zonie: I may have to disagree with you about reducing Pyrodex RS. Hodgdon, who makes that powder( those powders?) The powder is designed to be used VOLUME TO VOLUME with Black powder, but the actual weight of pyrodex is 20% less than the comparable VOLUME of black powder. Perhaps you meant "volume to volume" when you used the phrase, " Same Amount". If so, then I don't disagree with you.

Its easy to get confused. At least for me. I am reading this from an old Hodgdon Data Manual #23,( page 269) but its still the company's recommendation. 100 grains(weight) of Black Powder produces the same Velocity +/- as 80 grains(weight) of Pyrodex. The company does not distinguish between RS, and P powders, as to velocities, and comparable with black powder. It also doesn't tell us if they are using FFg or FFFg powder, much less if they are using RS or P powders for this data.

As to burning rates, Pyrodex P( pistol) burns more like Goex FFFg Black Powder, while the Pyrodex RS( rifle,shotgun) burns more like Goex FFg Black powder. The granule size of Pyrodex P is closer to that of FFFg powder, too, making it easier to get P powder down into the small flash channels in some rifles( and contributes to the burn characteristics of the powder, IMHO.) :hmm:

I watched a good friend fight with Pyrodex back in the early 1970s, and it convinced me to have nothing to do with it. Then, my father bought some Pyrodex to try in his revolver, and had nothing but trouble with it. I have not tested the stuff since- and readily admit that my personal experience with the stuff is absent. I have seen dozens of other shooters at my local club try to use the stuff, with the same problems I saw earlier. That doesn't keep me from Reading whatever people have to say about the powder- good and bad- but so far, I can't find a reason for me( cheap as I am!)to buy a can of the stuff instead of using Black powder. :hatsoff:

 

[markmahaney]

Brown Bear, if you contact Cabela's customer service, they will send one free of charge. But be advised, it is quite generic and offers more safety tips than actual information. Thanks for the reply.

 

[BrownBear]

Thanks!

:hatsoff:

 

[Zonie]

Yes Paul. As always, whenever I mention numbers in giving a powder charge I am speaking about the black powder volume of powder.

For you newcomers I guess I will elaborate a bit on what Paul was mentioning.

For most of us muzzleloaders, when a powder charge is being discussed we are speaking of the volume of powder. Volume as in cubic inches or cubic centimeters. Not volume as in how loudly your significant other raises her/his voice while asking for help with the dishes.

There are several reasons we use this volumetric measurement method.

First of all it's traditional. It's traditional because it is quickly done, the little measure is easy to carry and it is darn near foolproof.

Also, with the power that black powder produces there is no need to measure each load right down to the 1/10 of a grain. A little tube is accurate enough unless your shooting competition matches and looking for that last 1/64" of accuracy.

A recently added reason came about when the synthetic black powders were marketed.
Powders like Pyrodex, 777, Somebodys Gold etc were designed to be measured the old fashioned way. By measuring a volume.
Broadly speaking, a cubic centimeter of the synthetic powder will produce about the same amount of energy as a cubic centimeter of real black powder.

The actual weight of a cubic centimeter of this new synthetic powder on a accurate powder scale often weighs far less than a cubic centimeter of real black powder.
Pyrodex for instance has an actual weight (on a powder scale) that is 30 percent lighter than the same volume of real black powder.
That is why we don't talk about the actual weight of a powder charge.

OK. I've gotten off track here so lets get back to the Correct Load for a .54 Hawken.

 

[William O.]

Start with 55 grains of traditional black powder or 45 grains of Triple 7. Shoot three times using the same powder charge and patch combination, noting the group size. Increase by 5 grains and shoot another three times. You should see the group size start to shrink at some point, then get bigger. Go back to using the same amount of powder you used to get the tightest group and you have found the best load for your rifle. Don't exceed 95 grains of Triple 7 or 120 grains of BP but you'll probably stop short of that anyway. Don't adjust your sights until you find the best powder charge, this is all you're looking for right now. My .54 Lyman Trade rifle likes 85 grains of 2f Goex while my Cabelas .50 shoots fine using only 55 grains of 3f but a lot has to do with the twist rates.

 

[markmahaney]

Thanks Bull. I used that type of formula last trip out to the range, but got sidetracked. My rifle has a 3x9 scope mounted and it started walking on me. I did not remember to tighten it securely after the last cleaning. My groups were all over after 5 or 6 shots ... Did'nt realize what had happened until I talked to a friend later. I'm going back out this week and will start with your reccomended load and work up from there. I appreciate the reply.

 

[William O.]

You are welcome, I am always happy to pass on good advice. It's important to take your time and plan to spend more than just one session at the range finding the best load combination for each of your muzzle loaders. Some folks shoot one shot then start adjusting their sights and end up with more frustration than satisfaction, so if I can help anyone avoid that situation I'm more than willing to help.