Cheek Smacker

[George F.]

What makes a smoothbore (Fowler) a cheek smacker?

 

[Capt. Jas.]

The stock does not fit the shooter's build and mount and/or poor stock design.

 

[tg]

Shooting technique as well/at times because of the above will also create a possible problem.

 

[Lorne Johnson]

In simplest terms cheek smacking is an equal and opposite reaction headed toward that cheek. The key components are:

The amount of energy going out the barrel (and its acceleration).

The weight of the gun, which absorbs some of that energy.

The mechanics (or ergonomics) of the stock.

Rifle target shooters usually want a heavy barreled gun, which settles in to aim, is slow and predictable as it moves, and takes up recoil.

Fowlers need to be quick to point and swing, hence they are lighter, and take up less recoil.

(the next two paragraphs are essentially about leverage) 18th and early 19th century guns, especially American guns, position the heel of the stock considerably below the barrel of the gun. The recoil then produces force vectors which push the barrel up, and the comb of the stock into the shooters cheek (as you have noticed). If the barrel is heavy, and its all you can do to hold it up, most of the recoil simply releaves the downward pressure on your forward arm (nice). But, if the gun is lighter, and if the charge is heavy, it pushes the comb into your face (been there, done that).

In a SxS shotgun (for a right handed shooter) the right barrel typically shoots first (forward trigger=right barrel). The force vectors from this barrel move the stock away from the cheek (a little anyway). The left barrel pushes the stock more into the face, so the fanatic shooter wants that barrel to be his/her (there are women on this B Board?) last chance.

The bigger the charge the more significant the recoil, and fowler payloads range from 3/4 ounce at 900 fps to 1 5/8 ounce at 1400 fps. In the ante diluvian days when I shot a lot of targets with cartridge guns, I discovered that as I shifted from 1 1/8 ounce loads to 1 ounce loads, to 7/8 ounce loads that I could get on the second target MUCH quicker, and my scores went up (nothing great, but significantly up). (Here in VT there's a guy that swears that his best grouse (GROUSE) load is 1 5/8 ounce of sixes-- I guess he shoots where he hears 'em.)

Ergoi, less smack leads to better shooting.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I've found that a little cast-off (or cast-on if you shoot left handed) helps a lot. But your own body is a factor, too. It's not so much a matter of weight as the relationship of the relevant parts: your cheek, shoulder, neck length, arm length for example and how you mount the fowler. If you tend to "crawl" up the comb, you may have difficulties and if you have to lay your head over the comb to sight down the barrel you will get whacked.

The one size fits all gun is a myth especially so when you are speaking of a light, fast handling birding piece that must be mounted rapidly and instinctively in the same way every time. This is why the custom makers are worth every penny they charge and some more besides. They get the pull, drop, cast-off etc. right and you reap the benefits each time you go afield. Then there's the high quality and uniqueness factors--but that's for another thread.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Shooting technique as well/at times because of the above will also create a possible problem.

Most correct TG. I had that included (in my mind) with my "mount" response. :redface:


Incorrect pitch is a big cause of cheek slap.
In truth, this is the first item a gunfitter will check into when one is getting slapped.

Weight on the rear foot instead of nose over toes is a big cause of cheek slap.

Too little drop or too much drop and comb can cause cheek slap. )pressing too hard to get down on the gun or raising up off the comb to see over the gun)

Length of pull that is too short can cause cheek slap.


A light gun with larger recoil will not cheek slap if the stock is designed well, it's designed to fit the shooter, and the shooter executes a proper form. It still might recoil like Thor's hammer though!



:haha:

 

[MSW]

i agree with Cpt Jas. just one guy's opinion

 

[paulvallandigham]

A lot of shooters simply mount the stock wrong. You need to push the stock out in front of you, and then bring it back to your face and your shoulder's pocket at the same time. If you mount the stock to your shoulder, and THEN, lower your face to the stock, invariably you will have your cheekbone on TOP of the comb of the stock, and that is how you get " slapped " when the gun fires, no matter how light the load. YOu want the stock to be NEXT to your cheek, not below it.

Cast- Off( Cast- On for LHers) is definitely a help- and more so if you have a wide face( widely spaced eyes). You want to be looking down the barrel with your eye centered in the eye socket- or orbit-- with your head upright, rather than leaning down over the stock, or "crawling the stock". Cast helps to center the eye to the middle of the barrel without you having to lean OVER the comb of the stock.

Finally, occasionally we meet shooters who have no idea how to mount a shotgun, and are using the same stance you would shooting a rifle. The stock may have too long a Length of pull, or too little Pitch, and the height of the comb may be too much. They may be mounting it out on the arm, or shoulder socket, instead of the pocket. They often don't even know what we are talking about when we say " Pocket". New shooters never think about their feet for ANYTHING doing with mounting a gun, whether its a rifle or a shotgun. Yet, foot placement, and weight placement is essential to shooting a shotgun correctly.

All these things can cause a new shooter to feel a " slap " to his/her face when firing a shotgun, even if it is custom fitted to him/her.

Granted, there are all kinds of shooting positions, and shooting styles. That is for another thread- not here. But the poster asks what makes a shotgun a "slapper", and these are the things that most typically go wrong to produce that kind of problem.

 

[Lorne Johnson]

Good fit is important, and good gun fitters are not common. It's also a length process. The guy I worked with (now inactive) had me shoot hundreds of targets.

He also used a variety of techniques for cast, bending, dishing, and building the stock so the cast stayed parallel to the barrels but the required amount to one side. He was recoil sensitive, and liked that best on a custom stock.

 

[paulvallandigham]

While good stock fitters are few and far between, the reason is that people just won't pay them enough to do the job. What people don't understand is that once you find your measurements to fit one gun, its much easier to fit other guns to you, depending on the type and style of shooting being used.

I had a friend who left his LOP dimensions with a gunsmith over near Peoria, Illinois, and when he bought a New shotgun, he would drive over and drop the gun off at the gunsmith's shop to have the gunstock cut to his requirements before he even fired a shot from the gun. I was with him the day he picked a new Ljutic single barrel Trap gun, and went with him to the Peoria Skeet and Trap club where he shot the new gun for the first time. I believe he broke 48 out of 50 targets, with 23 on the first field, and 25 straight on the second. He began using that Ljutic for trapshooting thereafter, setting aside his other shotguns. He did have an old Model 31 Remington, and when I found a release trigger for it, and he put it in the gun, he took that out to shoot, again, for the first time in about 20 years. He had broken his first 100 straight targets with that gun, and only stopped shooting it after he needed to switch to a release trigger, and didn't have one for that gun. Of the more than 3 dozen shotguns he had in his gun collection, about 10 had been fitted to his dimensions. The others were "collectibles", that he only occasionally shot.

There is a good book out on gunstock fitting, the "Stock Fitter's Bible", By Rollin Oswald. The writing is a bit pedantic, but with excellent reason. The author is a skilled fitter, and he doesn't want the reader to skim the book, and miss important Step by Step instruction. If you read the book carefully, and then follow his instructions you will have a well fitted shotgun or rifle to shoot.

I have had stocks fitted to me by 4 different Smiths, and all pretty much followed the same methods to fit the stock to me. 2 of them have passed, but the other two are alive and still doing a bit of work for people who appreciate what they are doing.

 

[Britsmoothy]

If you are having trouble with a gun what do you see of the barrel after you have mounted the gun with your eyes shut?

Brit.

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

I have owned North West Trade Guns that would give you a good whack every time you pulled the trigger. ( have owned ) It is weird I recently got my new Officer's Carbine ( 1757 Light Dragoon Carbine ) from North Star West. I was a bit nervous about the squared stock on the carbine. But the new Carbine does not smack me around like my much earlier trade guns. I guess the new Carbine has more drop than the trade guns, or over the years my head has got so fat I have more padding to put on the stock ( than I did 25 years ago! ) For whatever reason my new carbine is a pleasure to shoot and after a 20 round session
I do not look like I have been in the ring for 12 rounds with Joe Fraisher!
:bow:

 

[TANSTAAFL]

How is the piece mounted and held to the shoulder? Sometimes placement can be everything.

I have seen people seated at a shooting bench lean forward and low into the gun, assuring they will absorb the full recoil in the worst possible way.


"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

 

[winterhorse]

i have an old (1988) northwest trade gun. back when it was just NORTH STAR (pre california northstar west) first shot thumped me pretty good so i called the maker. he asked what gun i had. then informed me that i had a true copy of the old northwest trade gun and if i still had questions about it, i could come up and see the original the pattern was taken from. seems the old nw guns where the cheapest made guns for their time. 4.20$ at the 1832 rendezvous. trap were going for 5$ at the same time. go figure.
love my old cheek pounder and would not part with it, so....cowboy up

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

That would be an old Curley Gun, He was very historically correct on his patterns. My new 1757 Light Dragoon Carbine is also made off of Curley's original measurements. Shooting my old trade guns I got whacked around a bit, but I never lost any teeth so just batten down the hatches and follow through!

At Friendship last September A fellow showed me an original Northwest Gun that was found in an old barn. It was in good condition all things considered, I would have shot it in a heart beat.
But when I shouldered the old warrior, It seemed much lighter than the reproduction Trade Guns I have shot in the past. It seemed to have less drop
than my old ones. I bet that beast was a real cheek thumper!

:thumbsup: