Checking my procedure

[Tb54]

i been doing some shooting lately, and at this point, it looks like 95 gr Goex FFg, .013” denim spit patch, .535 ball, is my best load, (with FFg, haven’t tried 3f yet). 5 gr above was a bit bigger group, at 50 yds, when I quit for the day.

I’m thinking about lubing that patch material with the ballistol/ water method for the next trip out, to find the best group I can get at that charge, or should I continue with the spit patch adding cigarette papers first, to find a different thickness patch material? The balls are pretty snug as it is, and after 15 or 20 shots, loading becomes a two hand job. I do swab between shots, immediately after I fire, and the patches come out cleaner than they did when I was useing Pyrodex, and feel smooth as I run them through the bore. This sounds like I should use a thicker patch to swab with, but the ones I’m useing do get stuck when I forget to wet them, and a double patch won’t fit in the bore.

 

[Tb54]

Also. I noticed some of my shooting patches were fragmenting. That normal? Or do it indicate something?

 

[necchi]

It's not all as simple as that.
Your swab method sounds fine. I wouldn't change that, it's all about consistent conditions shot to shot.
But when you change lube,, you can expect to change powder charge as well to get "the best group".
Consider thinking of the "patched round ball" and the "powder charge" as a combination of each component.
The ball size,
the patch thickness,
the patch lubrication,
the powder charge,
and the bore condition.
There is no magic answer when changing one of the components,, it takes experimenting, or at least understanding that one change can or could lead to the need to change another as we work towards what works best with each rifle.
p.s. your patch chard's are totally shredded,, there isn't a patch to see.

 

[Tb54]

p.s. your patch chard's are totally shredded,, there isn't a patch to see.

Just how denim reacts? I did notice with the lower charges too, the edges of the patches were completely frayed.

 

[Zonie]

Also. I noticed some of my shooting patches were fragmenting. That normal? Or do it indicate something?

Yes, it indicates something.

Either the cloth you used for patching is very old and weak or your spit is working about like spit often does. (It is IMO a very poor patch lube).

Try using a lube that has some vegetable or mineral oil in it. Something that actually lubricates the patch.

With patches in that condition I'm surprised you managed to hit the target, let alone get a group of some kind. When patches shred like that they can't keep the ball centered in the bore and they don't transfer the rotation of the twist to the ball. It's kind of like making your rifle into a smoothbore.

 

[necchi]

Just how denim reacts?

My fired denim patches look like this;

 

[Tb54]

Well I was under the impression I should start with spit patches, which don’t sound like much of a lube, to find a load, then graduate to a lube. Problem is without a starting point, I’m guessing at all the variables, then playing with one at a time to zero in on “ the load”, but each time I make a change, I gotta re-tweak everything to see if it dials in. I’m ok with that.

My patches on the weaker loads looked like yours necchi

 

[tenngun]

Go with your best group with only one change at a time, 60-65-70-75, when you find your best charge change patch thickness only, then ball, then lubes. I can’t prove it but believe that a ml has several different best loads.

 

[Dr5x]

I THINK IT BEST TO CONTINUE WITH THE SPIT PATCH AND CIGARETTE PAPERS TO DETERMINE THE IDEAL FIT, THEN LOOK FOR A FABRIC THAT IS AS THICK AS YOUR PTCH AND PAPER COMBINATION. WHEN YOU GET THAT RIGHT YOU CAN GO INTO THE BALLISTOL AND EVAPORATED WATER, SO CALLED DRY PATCH SYSTEM.

2FFIS EASIER ON YOUR SHOULDER THAN 3FFF.

YOU SEEM TO BE DOING A LOT OF THE RIGHT THINGS,

DUTCH SCHOULTZ

i been doing some shooting lately, and at this point, it looks like 95 gr Goex FFg, .013” denim spit patch, .535 ball, is my best load, (with FFg, haven’t tried 3f yet). 5 gr above was a bit bigger group, at 50 yds, when I quit for the day.

I’m thinking about lubing that patch material with the ballistol/ water method for the next trip out, to find the best group I can get at that charge, or should I continue with the spit patch adding cigarette papers first, to find a different thickness patch material? The balls are pretty snug as it is, and after 15 or 20 shots, loading becomes a two hand job. I do swab between shots, immediately after I fire, and the patches come out cleaner than they did when I was useing Pyrodex, and feel smooth as I run them through the bore. This sounds like I should use a thicker patch to swab with, but the ones I’m useing do get stuck when I forget to wet them, and a double patch won’t fit in the bore.

 

[Tb54]

One thing I noticed, because it was a cold day, was my patch material was froze each time I picked it up to re patch the next ball I was loading. I doubt it was freezing to the bbl because I was target shooting, keeping the bbl warm, but I don’t think I’ll use a spit patch or any water based lube, hunting, when the bbl could get to freezing temp. Just an aha moment for me. It do make me think about choosing a lube that cold weather, temperatures affects as little as possible.

I also noticed a sticking point where the swab patches would hang up, and the ball, while loading, right at the swell ( ring) in the bbl 8” above the breach. I started some extra scrubbing right there when swabbing, which helped the ball get past that point, but wonder if that’s carbon or patch, or both. I wonder if that ring could be allowing blowby sufficient to shred the patches at that point?

 

[Black Hand]

My suggestion is to find a grease lube and use that while you adjust your patch thickness and perhaps powder charge. The ring is likely crud that could be removed with a wet swab.

 

[Huntschool]

I also noticed a sticking point where the swab patches would hang up, and the ball, while loading, right at the swell ( ring) in the bbl 8” above the breach. I started some extra scrubbing right there when swabbing, which helped the ball get past that point, but wonder if that’s carbon or patch, or both. I wonder if that ring could be allowing blowby sufficient to shred the patches at that point?

I think you need to check this "ring" out. I would suggest you vigorously clean that area and see if said "ring" goes away. I don't know that this is effecting your guns performance (I think it may be) but I am concerned there might be a problem there that could be more then just carbon build up. I would do this before I did any more shooting. That "ring" should not be there...…

As to patch and load, I always start with spit and .010 patch. I have been doing this for almost 50 years now and that has always been my starting point. Not necessarily where I ended up though. However, I like to know where my spit patch loads will hit. Once you establish a group at whatever yardage then fool around with other lubes, ball sizes and powder charges to see if you can tighten your group or load easier. Regarding winter loads, I worked and found good group loads for big game using an Ox Yoke dry lubed patch that is now no longer available which shot the same as my spit patches. I would load that as my first shot and then tuck thre precut patches in my cheek and keep them wet if I needed a follow up shot. I have not tried Dutch's Ballistol patch recipe as yet cause I still have some of the Ox Yoke material left but they sound reasonable.

JMHO

 

[Tb54]

Yes, the crud is removed in cleaning, both at the range scrubbing with a spit patch swab, (but it takes more than just swabbing between shots) , and cleaning afterwards. The question is why do it form in the first place?

I’m considering abandoning the spit patch in the interest of eliminating fluctuating variables. Maybe just using a 7:1 ballistol dry patch, since it seems most guns like that concentration, then fine tuning that later. Not trying to oppose the wisdom shared here which I appreciate, but I wonder how consistent my spit patches are, and in the attempt to eliminate the fragmenting patches I experienced last time shooting. That seems to me to be a variable that must be made more consistent to make my efforts reliable.

Another issue I’m seeing, is sometimes my cap splits and falls off the nipple normally, sometimes I have to use pliers to pull it off, and sometimes it blows the cock back into full cock position—- but I don’t see a lot of the fluctuation on the target I would expect to see with velocity variations. This suggests to me that I’m getting pressure spikes, without proportionate velocity variations. This could be happening as the crud ring develops, or because of the patch lubing inconsistencies, or both.

 

[necchi]

If your getting any blow back at all, then it's time for a new nipple. All others tests can be rendered moot if the nipple is worn. It can render random results by itself.