Cheating didn't work

[robinghewitt]

Flintlock ignition was superb, weather was fine but I couldn't hit a barn in the butt at 10 paces. I scored a miserable 5/25 which is probably 5 better than I deserved :rotf:

Either the gun doesn't fit or it isn't shooting where I think it's shooting. I need some help here

Just about to go home when I found I was in a shoot off for second place in the percussion competition I shot last month. One clay from each of the 5 stands we were shooting so I got a percussion piece out of the car, won the toss and decided to shoot first, put the pressure on a bit. Pete obligingly missed one so I get silver in the percussion but came nowhere in the flint.

That flintlock just wouldn't work for me. I don't think I am particularly gun fussy so what could be going wrong? I just could not seem to get on the bird :shocked2:

Any clay gurus hereabouts? Where could I have gone so wrong?

Squire Robin

 

[paulvallandigham]

Have you patterned the barrels? I know that sounds basic, but many people think all shotguns shoot to the same point of aim. A change of clothing can affect where the shot pattern strikes.

Are there big holes in your patterns? That frustrates more shotgun shooters than even the different POI of the pattern. Lots of reasons for holes in the patterns.

Without more info, I would be just guessing.

Go at the problem systematically. Assume its shooter error. Ask some other good clay target shooter to try your gun with you loading it for him. If he has no trouble hitting the clays, then its you.

Ask him to watch you mount and shoot the gun. For experienced shooters, like you, most of the misses are the result of failure to follow through- ie, stopping the swing, or lifting your head off the stock. I cured that problem for myself by shooting doubles- Trap, but you can do much the same by shooting both barrels at the same target, one at a time. Hit the clay with the first barrel, and the largest piece with the second. It keeps your head on the comb through recoil. :thumbsup:

 

[robinghewitt]

Hi Paul

I have no trouble assuming it is shooter error, that ounce an a quarter of eights has to be going somewhere :thumbsup:

I did come second one year with this gun so it can do it. Back to basics I go :redface:

Squire Robin

 

[Capt. Jas.]

What types of presentations did you hit and what types were missed the most?

 

[robinghewitt]

Memory is a bit foggy but I was missing most everything. We started with an away bird standing next to the trap, clay rising above the tree line, I don't usually miss any of them, got 1/5.

I was missing driven, 2/5. How do you miss driven when you shoot it with a formula. Gun comes up until it covers the clay, bang, shower of little bits comes down.

Think I missed all but one of the crossers, fluked 1/5 coming from behind left.

When I hit them they were well hit, none of that 2 pieces stuff. 16g, ounce and a quarter over 60.

 

[Dave K]

As many shooters, I can cerainly have my bad days as well. It seems when I do miss(and I certainly do miss), it is from lifting my head and the more I miss, the more I left my head. So my bad day, just keeps getting worse, unless I give myself a good talking to and remind myself to keep my head on the gun. Of course sometimes, we just plain miss........ :redface:

 

[Lorne Johnson]

There are so many ways to miss, that I couldn't come close to listing them here. Missing the first shot and losing confidence is always a good place to start. It is interesting that you came right back using your percussion gun. I would measure the stock dimensions for both guns and see how close they are. (Being really not gun-fussy implies either be able to do it wrong, or having to do it wrong).

It could also be the change in timing between guns.

Sorry it didn't go well!

 

[robinghewitt]

I don't think I am gun fussy because I usually do well when I try other people's guns. I can be really annoying :redface:

I am not good with a slow firing flinter but this wasn't slow and I lengthened the stock to match my percussion.

I'm hoping for wet weather, nothing quite like boggy ground to see where the shot falls. I'm thinking consecutive shots with flint and percussion could show if I'm out vertically. Failing that I suppose it has to be target aquisition or a poor pattern like Paul suggested :hmm:

I am putting my 13g load into a 16g with extra sideways venting. Perhaps I'm not getting the same velocity and spread :hmm:

'tis a puzzlement.

 

[Many Klatch]

I don't know if you shoot a lot of rifle or not, but I find that folks that shoot a lot of rifle targets spend too long aiming to be good shotgun shooters. I can only hit birds if I call for the bird while the gun is at my hip. I get so busy putting the gun to my shoulder and getting on target that I don't have time to "aim". I get my share of birds that way.

Give the lowgun shooting a try. It might shake out a few cobwebs.

Many Klatch

 

[Lorne Johnson]

If you are out vertically it would be drop at the comb (and to a much lesser extent at the heel) that is the cause. Length has more to do with smoothness of the mount. The wrong cast could easily make it bounce off your cheek.

Generally speaking fit is much better understood in Britain than the US. 30 minutes to an hour at a steel patterning board should tell you a lot.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Agreed. If you extended the LOP to be the same as your other gun and did not consider the drop at comb nose and heel, you may have been peeking up to see the target and shooting over everything.
Combine that with a difference in timing and it could be the culprit. Too many possible factors without watching to call it really.

 

[robinghewitt]

If you are out vertically it would be drop at the comb (and to a much lesser extent at the heel) that is the cause. Length has more to do with smoothness of the mount. The wrong cast could easily make it bounce off your cheek.

I photgraphed both guns, drew an outline around the percussion then copied the outline over the flint, lining it up with barrel and front trigger.

Looks fairly close.

Don't have a pattern plate, do have a son working on a large local farm where they shoot practically anything than might damage a crop and occasionally clays. I'll have to ask him nicely :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Looking at the outline on the flintlock, the extra height on the comb, and the change in Pitch as shown by the Butt stock, would both contribute to shooting HIGHER with the flintlock, than with the percussion gun.

The real test, of course, is to pattern the flintlock on paper to see where the POI is compared to the POA. :thumbsup:

 

[Lorne Johnson]

Squire!

The comb (and stock generally) on the flintlock is higher than the percussion, quite a bit higher. That does lead to the point of impact being raised, so you might well need to leave quite a bit of headroom on targets, especially dropping targets (high house 1 at skeet). There is certainly enough difference there to affect your shooting.

Paul correct about the pitch, but it has a much less dramatic effect on POI--I set pitch to ease of mount without having the gun pop off my shoulder.

And . . . what a drop-dead gorgeous pair of (droole) guns.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

There is a big difference in drop at nose of comb. If you are a fair shot with that percussified gun then you were probably shooting over everything with the real gun. It's a good thing you added length or you would have shot higher yet.