Caps Made In Idaho

[ETipp]

Caps? Bigger picture concerns me. Understand two things. The millions of firearms in our country will be useful for generations to come. If manufacturing & importation were outlawed today, guns will still be here.

But ..the supply of ammunition in the supply line (waiting to be sold to us, the citizen/consumer) can be measured in months. If/when the evil-doers go after our supply of ammo, firearms will eventually be ornamental, not useful. The effect would be immediate and strangling. This IS the "happy time". Ask folks who live in states where ammo purchases require "permission" how they like it.

Caps' high prices? Yes, they are. Personally, I will continue to buy some because without demand, manufacturers will cease production. Demand equals profit. Profit drives production.

Very good post, SK.

I know what route I’m taking.

 

[ETipp]

Potassium chlorate is especially nasty. Put a bit the size of a match head on an anvil and strike it with a hammer. You will be lucky if the hammer doesn't fly out of your hand and kill a cat over at the neighbors.

Waksupi, is that’ what comes in the cap making kits?

 

[waksupi]

Waksupi, is that’ what comes in the cap making kits?

A previous poster said it was, so I take him at his word.

 

[rshveyda]

The answer to the "just make more" demands are that those factories are very likely already running at full capacity, very likely at least two shifts a day if not three. The machine they are using have to be built, they aren't readily available to buy off the shelf anywhere. And then you need a new factory for all those machines, and they still have to be tooled up by knowledgeable machinists familiar with ammo making, then the staff hired to run them and all that is a huge investment for any company. That process alone could take years and where does the company get the funds to pay for that kind of massive expansion? And what do they do when the market is satiated, demand drops and they no longer need the extra factory? They can't just shut the new factory down and let it stand idle. They'd never see a return on all that investment and be bankrupt in no time.

It's very easy to say "make more," but a huge endeavor to satisfy demand when if doubles or triples for relative short periods of time, and the demand for ammo and components has always been cyclical.

 

[Howard Pippin]

Not to be rude and I mean no disrespect here Waksupi to you nor anyone else, but If someone is too cheap to snap a cap then they definitely need a different type of rifle or need to make their own caps.

I cannot imagine not snapping a couple of caps after a good cleaning. Then again I do not experience misfires nor do I need to fiddle around with flints.

My system works very well and the last few tins I purchased last fall cost 5.69 per 100.

I surely don't wanna get an argument, but I don't snap a cap either on a clean rifle. I've never had a misfire with a clean percussion, it was always one that I had already shot a few times. I do open up my nipple hole to at least .031 on my percussions and maybe that increases the odds of not having a misfire, because they generally happened after shooting at something and not cleaning for a few hours or until the next day and that's when I would get just a cap, no discharge. At the few muzzle loader shoots that there is at the target range where other muzzle loader shooters are, only a couple shoot more than one cap. I teach hunter safety to kids and one of the things I do stress is that they should shoot that cap before they start and I show them the reason why.
Squint

 

[ETipp]

I surely don't wanna get an argument, but I don't snap a cap either on a clean rifle. I've never had a misfire with a clean percussion, it was always one that I had already shot a few times. I do open up my nipple hole to at least .031 on my percussions and maybe that increases the odds of not having a misfire, because they generally happened after shooting at something and not cleaning for a few hours or until the next day and that's when I would get just a cap, no discharge. At the few muzzle loader shoots that there is at the target range where other muzzle loader shooters are, only a couple shoot more than one cap. I teach hunter safety to kids and one of the things I do stress is that they should shoot that cap before they start and I show them the reason why.
Squint

That’s fine, Howard. If it works for you and your location, then it works. Just stating that in the area I live, it’s very humid so I chose a different route and I never have misfires. It’s worth it to me.

After cleaning and before loading I always snap at least one cap. Sometimes that first cap sounds a little weak so I snap another one. There’s a noticeable difference in sound with the second cap, as in louder. But sometimes that first cap is plenty. I hope to soon be making my own caps so it will be even less of an issue.

Works for me. That’s all that matters.

 

[Howard Pippin]

That’s fine, Howard. If it works for you and your location, then it works. Just stating that in the area I live, it’s very humid so I chose a different route and I never have misfires. It’s worth it to me.

After cleaning and before loading I always snap at least one cap. Sometimes that first cap sounds a little weak so I snap another one. There’s a noticeable difference in sound with the second cap, as in louder. But sometimes that first cap is plenty. I hope to soon be making my own caps so it will be even less of an issue.

Works for me. That’s all that matters.

I enjoy your comments ETip, Black powder hasn't been available in my area for 10-15 years, so in percussion I've moved into 777. Caps were around, but now they're getting in short supply. Plan on checking on some soon, the closes place is 41 miles and the next is 120 miles away. Of course as soon as they seem scarce we start hoarding our own supply and I probably have enough for 3 years or more on hand. Taking in account my age and the amount of time I spend shooting, It's actually funny but someone, done the road, will enjoy my well stocked supplies.
Squint

 

[ETipp]

I enjoy your comments ETip, Black powder hasn't been available in my area for 10-15 years, so in percussion I've moved into 777. Caps were around, but now they're getting in short supply. Plan on checking on some soon, the closes place is 41 miles and the next is 120 miles away. Of course as soon as they seem scarce we start hoarding our own supply and I probably have enough for 3 years or more on hand. Taking in account my age and the amount of time I spend shooting, It's actually funny but someone, done the road, will enjoy my well stocked supplies.
Squint

IMO Howard, you did right.

 

[PEARL DRUMS]

Vista Id. is one of my good customers. They are churning out more boom boom products, not caps, than they ever have. They are adding more tooling than they ever have, they are running more presses than they ever have. All this started about 3/4 years ago. If they have an option to run, for example, 2 million 06 rounds or 2 million caps. The decision is very easy. There is no wacky conspiracy involved in any of it. Extreme hoarding is what causes shortages.

 

[shorthair]

The answer to the "just make more" demands are that those factories are very likely already running at full capacity, very likely at least two shifts a day if not three. The machine they are using have to be built, they aren't readily available to buy off the shelf anywhere. And then you need a new factory for all those machines, and they still have to be tooled up by knowledgeable machinists familiar with ammo making, then the staff hired to run them and all that is a huge investment for any company. That process alone could take years and where does the company get the funds to pay for that kind of massive expansion? And what do they do when the market is satiated, demand drops and they no longer need the extra factory? They can't just shut the new factory down and let it stand idle. They'd never see a return on all that investment and be bankrupt in no time.

It's very easy to say "make more," but a huge endeavor to satisfy demand when if doubles or triples for relative short periods of time, and the demand for ammo and components has always been cyclical.

Add in the site process and permits, plus public opposition to what they will term an explosives plant and you have a process that would take a decade or two and still get ruled against and it's no wonder that no new players are rushing forward to build a new plant.

 

[Sam squanch]

Yes, but if you don’t think certain anti gun and ATF types are observing and taking notes on how to disrupt and stop all ammo supply, I’ve got Oceanside property in Kansas I’ll sell cheap….

 

[smoothshooter]

You'd think that CCI would raise the price and make more thus increasing profits. Logical, right? CCI makes caps in a once a year run in the spring. That seems crazy to me given the present demand.

Domestic ammunition and component production is all controlled by one foreign corporation, Vista. Like the others, CCI is owned by Vista, a Czech company. All American smokeless powder is made by General Dynamics. All American black powder is made by Goex. There is no competition. That is bad for us. all. It seems to be part of an agenda.

Also, much of the raw materials and production capacity is being used to support a war in Ukraine. The stuff we give them needs to be replaced in our stock piles. The military get priority over us.

I am not sure as to CCI's logic in creating artificial shortages. In the old days, the manufacturers could tool up to make make more. Today they say that they are concerned that once the market is saturated that they will be stuck with idle machinery. That does not make sense to me.

You'd think some company or individual would step up and make caps. The profit is clearly there. There are some primer start ups but I do not see them getting much done.

One factor is the lack of raw materials. Since covid the supply chain has dried up and nobody cares enough or will allow it to be fixed. My research indicates it is deliberate and artificial. In the end there are much larger forces and agendas at work to prevent you from buying a tin of caps for $10.

https://shoot-on.com/update-czech-company-to-purchase-major-american-ammunition-brands/
https://www.marlinowners.com/threads/list-of-who-actually-makes-smokeless-gunpowders.92319/

Another consideration is that they would have to pay taxes on any unsold inventory on hand at the end of the year if they ever made too many.

 

[B P Maniac Shooter]

I see where CCI caps are made in Idaho by a subsidiary of Speer? Can't we get the NMLRA to somehow influence the company to goose up production and distribution of these things?

Not going to happen.
There is a heavier demand for primers for modern shells. They can't make them fast enough & will have plenty of buyers for them upon being available for sale.

The BP market is too small for Speer to even mess with except 1 maybe 2 runs a year.

 

[Appowner]

We need to be realistic about this. I'm sure these companies have done their due diligence and studied the market conditions. There appears there are a couple of companies willing to make caps when other demands allow. What percentage of total revenue is made up of the desired caps? Bet it's pretty small like one or less percent.

We must understand and accept the fact that we the customers are not the boss of these companies. We can whine and cry all we want but the reality is the stock holders of the company are boss. And the stock holders are interested in dividends and big profit margins. Not our BP Fun! We are in a market where if (and that is the biggest IF most of us will ever see) If other demands allow they may accommodate us.

Other pass times are experiencing similar issues. My radio control hobby is one. The price of balsa is out of this world. I have two engines sitting on my desk right now that go for $3,000 each. The Alcohol, nitro and oil Fuel runs 20 - 30 dollars a gallon these days. I use to burn 2-3 gallons each weekend. Most guys are switching to ignition and the corner gas station. And have you looked for a hobby shop that supports them lately? I pass two model railroad shops before I get to anything for RC.

Now lets talk about the Harley. Mine is a 2008 model. All original paint that looks factory fresh. Local dealers (two of them) won't touch it for servicing because it's over 10 years old. They lack the storage space for parts and most of their guys are not qualified to work on that bike.

I see a cottage industry for caps coming about or most of us will simply stop shooting. Then what happens to business' like Kibler and TOW? So someone will come up with a way of producing them reliably at a decent rate of production. Someone else will automate it and get 1000 per hour or even more. So then, what's the price of a single cap? How much material goes into a single cap? A nickel maybe? So you might spend $50 to produce 1000 caps. And charge what for them?

Of course it isn't as easy as it sounds. Storage of the chemicals has it's own issues. As does shipping and maybe some sort of licensing, permits and such. There will be some variances to all this depending on which state you're in. But the cost of all those useless government requirements should be picked up by your profits. Can it be any more hassle than getting an FFL or even a silencer?