• This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.



    Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades
  • Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

Can't get my gun to pattern

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

woodse guy

40 Cal.
Joined
Nov 26, 2010
Messages
461
Reaction score
0
Tried getting my gun ready for turkey season. Was shooting equal shot to powder. The more powder and shot I tried the worse the pattern. Would a fiber wad help? I have been using a 1/8 inch wad. The gun is a Pedersoli 10 ga.
 
What was the total load set-up besides the 1/8" wad? What volume amount of powder/shot did you start with and get to? We need a few more details to give you better help.
 
Here's the load I use for turkey in my 10 ga. Ped.
#5 shot,115 gr. by volume
FFg powder 80 gr. by volume
2 over shot cards over powder
1 over shot card over shot
Have taken birds out to 30 yards with that load
 
Used equal amounts of powder to shot. 2f powder Goex. Started with 1 1/8 oz all the way to 1 3/8 oz shot.
 
The comments above are a good start. You'll get better patterns with more shot, by volume, than powder and thinner cards against thicker wads. Folks here have tried everything, including cutting the wads in half (side to side) to decrease their weight and mass. The heavy wads can push through the shot pattern causing the typical donut pattern, particularly with equal amounts of powder & shot. The cards will help as will some type of shot cup to protect and hold the shot together. I'd recommend starting by changing the shot to powder ratio as well as going to thinner cards over wads...or at least thinning the wads. Good luck and keep us informed.
 
I make paper cartriges that resemble a cicil war cartrige except its all shot with a hard card in the bottom shot in the middle and a thin oversot on top with a tail folded over to tear off when loading I also glue a leather op wad on the bottom of the cartrige and lube it .....nice neat little package for fast easy reloads
 
In that ten guage 1&1/2 oz of shot and the measure set for 1&1/8 of powder and you should be done.
The single 1/8th wad does not sound good to me....a few thinner over shot cards work better in my experience.
How thick is the over shot card? Thinner than 1/8" I hope!

Brits.
 
In my French trade gun I use 70 gr. of 3F Swiss and a 90 powder measure of shot(1 1/4 oz.?) I put a lubed 1/8" Durafelt wad over the powder and a notched over shot wad on top. It's a 20 ga.

TinStar
 
In my French trade gun I use 70 gr. of 3F Swiss and a 90 powder measure of shot(1 1/4 oz.?) I put a lubed 1/8" Durafelt wad over the powder and a notched over shot wad on top. It's a 20 ga.

TinStar
Soli Deo Gloria!
 
First, the problem with bad patterns usually means your shot column is torquing as it comes down the barrel. This is why rifles don't shoot shot well, and you don't need much of a turn in the shot to cause you problems. Increasing powder only amplifies the effect.

It's a myth that the wad will fly through the shot causing "donuts". I've seen the photos, and in none of them does the wad show itself ahead of the shot. Add to that the fact that the tiny spheres of shot have much less air friction than the wad, so the wad decelerates at an amazing rate compared to the shot..., and you will know it's not possible. Hot gasses blowing around a poorly fitted solid wad, or through some tow or paper used as a wad, is a different matter..., but a wad itself..., nope.

The key is to reduce any of the movement of the shot column. In fact Remington for their modern shotguns markets a turkey choke that not only is very tight... it also is straight grooved to prevent or to halt any twisting of the shot column.

As I mentioned, adding velocity by adding powder won't help your problem. In fact reducing velocity may help, and many folks do this by default for they add more shot by volume than powder. So if you use 1¼ ounce of shot instead of 7/8 ounce without adjusting the powder quantity, you will have more pellets but also lower velocity. If you go too far with the shot amount, you might seriously reduce the effective range of your shotgun.

One method that works for some folks... try 80 grains of powder, followed by a 1/8 cardboard wad. Then using a dipper or measure set to 30 grains of powder..., load some shot. Follow it with another 1/8 wad... then another 30 grain dipper full of shot, followed by another wad, and then a final 30 grain dipper of shot, and a final wad. You will then have shot equivalent to a 90 grain load, spaced out with four wads. This should reduce any twisting effect on the shot column, and gives you a bit more shot over the powder.

See if that helps.

If you find a load that is satisfactory on paper, then do a tuna can test. Get an empty steel tuna can, and set it down range at your desired maximum distance. Set it on its side with the bottom facing you, and take a shot at it. If the pellets don't penetrate, you need to work on upping the power of the load, or..., you need to lower the max range where you will shoot the turkey.

LD
 
woodse guy said:
I have been using a 1/8 inch wad.

I'm suspicious that gas is getting around your single card and blowing through the shot column, especially if your barrels are choked. If that single card is the least bit undersize to the bore, you got problems.

Some folks prefer a stack of over-shot cards and get good results. I'm using cylinder-bore guns and concentrate on tight-fitting wads, from which I get good smooth patterns. I wouldn't call them tight "turkey" patterns out to 30 yards or so where I shoot them for ptarmigan, ducks and snowshoe hare, but they're sure effective for my needs.

My choice of wads are a hard 1/8" Type A wad followed by a lubed fiber wad. The tight Type A does a good job of scraping the bore which eases subsequent loading. I might shoot 30 times in a day, rather than once like a turkey hunter, so that's important to me.

I'm kinda skeptical about the claim of fiber wads "blowing" through the patterns. I have nothing to base it on but opinion and shooting, but I'm convinced its more often a case of gas leaking and blowing the pattern when a guy gets too much powder or a poor wad fit to the bore. All I can offer to back that is when I'm getting "donut" patterns with a fiber wad, adding that tight Type A under it suddenly "keeps the fiber wad from blowing through the pattern." Baloney. I think the tight Type A is giving a better gas seal.

Nuff yapping. Try measuring your bore and getting a nice tight fit with your wad column, whichever combo you believe in. I'm betting a tight fit will have a lot more effect than the details of how you got it.
 
My SXS 12 gauge never gave nice patterns no matter what I tried; this compared to another one I worked with which did produce even patterns of appropriate density. I ended up with jug chokes in that gun and now it patterns great. I suspect that each barrel is a law unto itself, and in my opinion some may require a hint of choke to make them behave like you want.
 
Since we are all chirping in with our favorite loads, I will give mine.

20 ga. flint lock trade gun, 65 grains of 2f, 1/8” Nitro card, 3/8" felt wad, 1 ¼ oz. of 6 and 7 ½ shot.

Maximum shooting distance 18 yards over decoys. I am two for two with this gun and load. :v

I pattern the gun at 16 yards and expect 4 or 5 shots in the head. The tuna can suggested by others is a good practice target.

Less powder, more shot, thinner wads is the prevailing wisdom. I do okay with a standard wad column but each gun is different.

When working up a load I have found that the pattern can vary from shot to shot. More than once I thought I had the ultimate tight group combination of powder, wad and various types of shot cup; only to have it change from shot to shot. :confused:

Yes, I have been skunked when the birds would not come in close enough but if I just wanted to reach out and touch them I would screw a tight choke into my modern double barrel.

The trade gun’s cylinder bore barrel is what is it is. To me a smooth pattern up close is more important than a tight pattern. I would like both but I have not found the golden combination for my gun yet.

Good luck and keep us posted.
 
My T/C New Englander is jug choked and that took it from a pure cylinder bore to modified (actually skeet #2, or 55%). My flint fowler I wanted to leave cylinder bore and played around to see what I could come up with that improved patterns. I make "cups" at the muzzle as needed out of brown paper bag strips and this eliminates the pellets scraping down the bore as fired. Improves groups noticably - though I never counted % improvement.

All you need is a dowel slightly smaller than the bore and strips cut to form a nice cylinder when pushed onto the dowel.

DSCN0121.jpg


DSCN0126.jpg


DSCN0135.jpg


DSCN0122.jpg



Wads and cards I carry in a tin.

DSCN0630.jpg


These fiber wads haven't been rolled in molten beeswax - which I do as a lube to make loading easier for subsequent shots.

Ready to go.

HPIM2568.jpg


DSCN0156.jpg
 
I also use a paper shot cartridge much like the civil war paper cartridge. I make mine out od three thickness of news paper, tied with kite string , filled with shot, folded over and tied shut. I use two 1/8 leather wads over the powder then the shot cartridge.
 
Thanks Dave, guess I ended up repeating the right thing for the wrong reason...nothing new for me. Years ago when I had patterning problems, I got the donut story and changed the wad and it worked. Assumed the results justified the reason. Well, even an old dog can learn a new trick...or at least learn why the trick really worked! :hatsoff:
 
Right barrel is 18.81 mm or .740
Left barrel is 19.41 mm or .764
Over powder wad is 1/8 thick 20.09 mm or .791 I lubed it with wonder lube. Over shot card is .80 thick and same size as over powder wad.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top