British Dueling pistols question

[Barrel Browner]

Hi all a research question. If there was a maker of dueling pistols from the UK bearing a top British makers name would there be an interest in these ? of course cost would be a factor but just looking for some feedback at the moment. Thanks in advance.

 

[Rudyard]

Why do you ask ? are you offering duellers .
Rudyard

 

[Barrel Browner]

Hi Rudyard, I work as a barrel finisher blacking and browning a few years ago I acquired the Name John Manton and Son Gunmakers Ltd, we are currently building high end shotguns, but we are seriously looking at making Dueling pistols, I recently purchased a pair of Hege Manton Duelers and have access to some original John Manton pistols, we would have to look at all the costings but I want to find out how much interest there would be in us doing this.

 

[Treestalker]

If I was a gentleman of means I would of course have or have made a cased set of proper duelers with which to defend my honor and that of my friends and ladies. Not being such, I reckon such decorous items fall outside the pervue of DUCK MOTHER&%##%&$

 

[Grenadier1758]

As a gentleman of means, if I were other than a Grenadier private, I would have a cased pair of pistols for use for personal defense. Simply having two pistols in a case does not necessarily make them duellers. As an enticing tale two pistols in a box are often referred to as duelling pistols when they are just two pistols in a box.

What specifically makes them duellers?

 

[Notchy Bob]

I think there would be interest. You can count on generating interest if you offer high-quality, accurate reproductions of interesting firearms. There was a recent thread on this forum concerning the conservation of an old Manton pistol which ran to four or five pages. Whether these pistols would sell or not would be highly dependent on their cost, and you might benefit from floating your idea to a wider audience.

I expect there would be at least some interest in a cased set, but I would think it may also be worthwhile to offer the pistols as single units, which would enable more people to have the experience of actually shooting one of these guns. However, offering a single dueling pistol may be a break from tradition... The "du-" in "dueler" implies "two." It wouldn't be much of a duel if only one participant were armed, and the whole point of making these in identical pairs was to "level the field" for the antagonists, to ensure neither had an unfair advantage. There was a humorous passage about a duel in Charles Frazier's Thirteen Moons. One participant was much larger than the other, making a larger target. The smaller fellow suggested that his outline be chalked onto the big guy, and hits outside the chalk line wouldn't count...

I think there is a pretty specific set of guidelines for defining what makes a dueling pistol, as opposed to just a pistol. Dave Person may know. I think he may have built a few of these. I would need to hunt through my references for the information.

More details would be welcomed. As a retiree on a fixed income, I can't say I would be in the market for a set of dueling pistols, but I would like to know more about what you have in mind.

I would like to know more about your shotguns, too, assuming they are muzzle-loaders.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Barrel Browner]

Hi Notchy Bob, thank you for your reply, I have a pair of these Hege Manton pistols they look pretty good and some say they are popular, getting the quality right is not a problem but getting them done at a good price is not going to be easy, grateful for your feedback.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Those are to drool over. Magnificent.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Stand back, Rifleman. I think drool might be corrosive.

The pistols are outstanding! Thank you for the picture.

Notchy Bob

 

[dave_person]

Hi Barrel Browner,
Those are nice reproductions. Probably the best quality I've seen. I suspect there would be a market here but at the price point you would have to meet, that market would be small and select. Your selection of the Manton pistols seems like a good one because they ought to make good target shooting guns rather than just historical examples. You might appeal to members of the US International Muzzleloading Team. While I can see the advantages of Manton's heavy barreled pistols for target shooting, I much prefer the light and lively style of Wogdon.

Thank you for posting your inquiry and sharing your ideas.
dave

 

[Barrel Browner]

Hi Dave, thanks for the feedback, I do love Wogdon guns and they are beauty`s. This is a little of topic but being muzzle loaders you guys may like these, my Grandad made them, he spent his entire life in the gun trade having been born in 1912, these are probably the last damascus barrels made in the UK using the traditional ways, started in the sixties and almost completed in the eighties before he passed.

 

[toot]

I wonder what the loosers wife does with his pistols, as he doesn't need them anymore. ? it is a question that I have pondered about?

 

[Notchy Bob]

Hi Dave, thanks for the feedback, I do love Wogdon guns and they are beauty`s. This is a little of topic but being muzzle loaders you guys may like these, my Grandad made them, he spent his entire life in the gun trade having been born in 1912, these are probably the last damascus barrels made in the UK using the traditional ways, started in the sixties and almost completed in the eighties before he passed.

Those little shotguns are outstanding! The Damascus barrels are extraordinary!

Thank you for showing them.

I wonder what the loosers wife does with his pistols, as he doesn't need them anymore. ? it is a question that I have pondered about?

Toot's post may have been all in fun, but it's worth a comment.

I don't know about Britain, but in the United States, women had very few rights until well into the twentieth century. When a man died, it was customary for an appraiser to come in and evaluate his property. If he owed any debts, such as a mortgage on the farm or estate, an auction was held and the proceeds were used to pay off what he owed. If there was any left, the widow might receive it. If there was none, the widow was left utterly destitute. Life insurance was nonexistent.

This happened to one set of my great-great-grandparents. The man, a respected member of the community, a tradesman and farmer, husband and father, was murdered. This was in Alabama, in approximately 1858. The perpetrators were caught by an enraged community and lynched on the spot. However, debts were owed, his property was appraised and auctioned off, and my great-great-grandmother was left with nothing except her two daughters. I think she ended up sharecropping and doing washing for people, until she was able to remarry, which I believe was probably done out of necessity rather than romantic love.

People who were wealthy enough to own dueling pistols may have had enough resources to provide a "safety net" of sorts for widows. I don't know. If they didn't, chances are pretty good the loser's property, including his pistols, if he owned them, would have been sold at auction. The widow would very likely have been happy to be shed of them.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[toot]

Notchy Bob, yes I was posting it in fun. thank you for taking the time to explain the rest of the story that I never thought about. getting married out of necessity, not love, as explained makes sense. good that times have changed.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Notchy Bob, yes I was posting it in fun. thank you for taking the time to explain the rest of the story that I never thought about. getting married out of necessity, not love, as explained makes sense. good that times have changed.

I appreciate your comments, toot! Some things, a few at least, have changed for the better.

Now, back to those dueling pistols!

Notchy Bob

 

[Barrel Browner]

Anyone have any idea what the Hege Manton sell for. Or what they would have been new.

 

[Sam squanch]

Can you compete with Pedersoli?Or is your aim to produce only a few very high quality pairs a year at a high price, or somewhere in between?

 

[Barrel Browner]

Hi Sam, Looking at all options at the moment, we can probably make some with original Damascus as we have some stock of various Damascus tubes, it would be nice to make some high quality pieces but like you say maybe hard to compete with Pedersoli who have been there and done it.

 

[Sam squanch]

I’d say if you can make a historically correct dueler that functions well in a ,say , $ 600 to $ 800 price range, they may sell ok. But quality costs, so that may be unrealistic. Some of the nicer pedersoli pistols are way over $1000. But of course, the average joe back then couldn’t afford a gun like that either.

 

[ultonia]

Anyone have any idea what the Hege Manton sell for. Or what they would have been new.

Hi Browner

I'd be interested in having a British made replica muzzle loading pistol and supporting a British gunmaker.

At the moment Henry Krank has a Hege Manton with smooth and rifled barrels for sale at £3,200. Portsmouth Gun Centre have a smoothbore one for £1500. Very expensive I think but I suppose they don't come up for sale much.

Perhaps you could get a better idea of pricing for new pistols from one of the German muzzleloading gunmakers' sites like Artax Vorderlader or Tilo Dedinski.

Looking forward to hearing more.