I need to reinstall a breech plug,i didnt remove it, problem is the flats dont line up,it goes slightly past where it should. Someone suggested i shim it but that doesn't sound right to me any ideas?
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breech plug reinstall how toli
- Thread starter jim bowie
- Start date
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Do not shim it!
If the barrel has the dovetails cut or underlugs installed, you will have to file (remove metal) from the rear of the barrel and the face of the breech plug untill the tang of the plug realigns with the top of the barrel and the face of the breech plug seals against the shoulder in the barrel.
If the barrel does not have cuts for dovetails or anything else that has to be in a certain place, simply file (remove metal) from the rear of the barrel and the face of the breech plug untill the tang lines up with the next flat and the face of the breech plug seals against the shoulder in the barrel.
SC45-70
If the barrel has the dovetails cut or underlugs installed, you will have to file (remove metal) from the rear of the barrel and the face of the breech plug untill the tang of the plug realigns with the top of the barrel and the face of the breech plug seals against the shoulder in the barrel.
If the barrel does not have cuts for dovetails or anything else that has to be in a certain place, simply file (remove metal) from the rear of the barrel and the face of the breech plug untill the tang lines up with the next flat and the face of the breech plug seals against the shoulder in the barrel.
SC45-70
Guest
SC 45-70 is right if it's a new build with no tenons added. If it an existing breached barrel, NAPA sells foil shim stock in stainless steel, and or copper. Using the plug face as a guide you can cut a circle out , and fit it up. Won't hurt anything. If its that already fitted barrel it will throw off all dimensions if you file the barrel and plug.. I've repaired three barrels on old guns, both commercial, an production , with no ill effects. The flaw is only probably 2-3 thou. and if you use 5 thousandths copper the crush will give you a great seal. You can get the exact thickness by measuring the gap with plug in the correct position with feeler gauges. Or you can get a new breech plug, and fit it up from scratch, it's a great learning experience. 
Bill
Bill
Thanks to both who responded, its not a new build,sorry didnt think to specify. So copper shims kinda act like a crush gasket? Dont know if id ever shoot it but would be nice to know its fixed right. Wonder how much pressue these old guns can stand im guessing reduced loads
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fatcat said:
i wouldn't be too keep to 'stoke it up.' as regards the shim question, i have used shims made from feeler gauges ... probably some sort of blasphemy, but it seems to work ...
:rotf: blastphemy, the result of an improperly installed breech plug, blastphemy! Lol new muzzle loading terminology!
While a shim may work, I don't think it is a proper fix.
Since I have no idea what type gun you have. If it's one with the drum (or vent) screwed through the breech plug (CVA, Traditions, Pedersoli, ect.) this method will not work! You will need a new breech plug.
If you have a patent breech plug the proper way would be to machine the rear of the barrel and the face of the breech plug until it is in the proper location and the breech plug contacts the shoulder in the barrel with 35-40 lbs of torque. This method will move the barrel rearward 50+ thousanths of an inch and may require some work on the under lugs for the pins or keys (wedges) to fit.
If you have a drum (or vent) screwed into the side of your barrel, machine the tang portion of the breech plug where it meets the barrel and also machine the breech plug face untill the breech plug face fits snug against the shoulder in the barrel and the tang lines up with the top flat of the barrel with 35-40 lbs of torque.
It may be eaisier to fit a new tang! This method will move the tang ahead 50+ thousanths of an inch and will require a filler behind the tang, but the barrel will remain in the same location.
Either way assuming your barrel has a 5/8x18 thread you would need to take about 50 thousanths of an inch off each as with 18 threads per inch, 1 rotation of the barrel will move the breech plug 55.5 thousanths of an inch.
As you can see to do it right is not an eaisy job!
SC45-70
Since I have no idea what type gun you have. If it's one with the drum (or vent) screwed through the breech plug (CVA, Traditions, Pedersoli, ect.) this method will not work! You will need a new breech plug.
If you have a patent breech plug the proper way would be to machine the rear of the barrel and the face of the breech plug until it is in the proper location and the breech plug contacts the shoulder in the barrel with 35-40 lbs of torque. This method will move the barrel rearward 50+ thousanths of an inch and may require some work on the under lugs for the pins or keys (wedges) to fit.
If you have a drum (or vent) screwed into the side of your barrel, machine the tang portion of the breech plug where it meets the barrel and also machine the breech plug face untill the breech plug face fits snug against the shoulder in the barrel and the tang lines up with the top flat of the barrel with 35-40 lbs of torque.
It may be eaisier to fit a new tang! This method will move the tang ahead 50+ thousanths of an inch and will require a filler behind the tang, but the barrel will remain in the same location.
Either way assuming your barrel has a 5/8x18 thread you would need to take about 50 thousanths of an inch off each as with 18 threads per inch, 1 rotation of the barrel will move the breech plug 55.5 thousanths of an inch.
As you can see to do it right is not an eaisy job!
SC45-70
This really needs to be a nice job its on an original john p sites
rifle.see the gun research area ive written more info on it.the plug is not drum and nipple rather it is a snail type with two gold bands and the makers initials in gold. Id rather defer the job to someone more qualified if it entails machine work. Or maybe i should just leave it the rifle looks like a hawken from the wrist forward but has a wide english fowler butt. Looks like pecatonicas english fowler
rifle.see the gun research area ive written more info on it.the plug is not drum and nipple rather it is a snail type with two gold bands and the makers initials in gold. Id rather defer the job to someone more qualified if it entails machine work. Or maybe i should just leave it the rifle looks like a hawken from the wrist forward but has a wide english fowler butt. Looks like pecatonicas english fowler
Guest
Fatcat, this gun should not be messed with, it should be left as found. It's a piece of history. Only a trained conservator should work on it. There are any number of reasons why the breech is the way it is, and advice here won't solve it, no matter how knowledgeable the contributors are. It's value is in research study, and sharing the history, not making it functional.
Bill
Bill
Thanks bill, your suggestion will be followed. Its beyond my ability to repair it. So i will enjoy it as it is, ive had hours of fun researching this rifle. I think there is a connection between john p sites and a w sites. W sites was listed by gluckman and satterlee? As having built a flintlock (1surviving example) i think this may be william sites son of jacob from senaca rocks w virginia. Google senaca rocks discovery center they have a sites house there. John p sites sr. Is from rockingham co va/ shenandoah he was in missouri by 1834. If im right i can trace the line to a johann seitz and from there to england. Your right bill, the value to this old gun is the history/research but before it becomes a dust collector in some museum id love to shoot it probably wont but id love to! Thanks to all who contributed, ive learned a lot fatcat
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Bill, I agree with you.
By the way, FatCat is going to pun Hell, where he will spend his purgatory next to people who talk on their cell phones in the theatre.
By the way, FatCat is going to pun Hell, where he will spend his purgatory next to people who talk on their cell phones in the theatre.
Oh no pun hell, get me the hell outa here lol i meant no blastphemy it wasnt me!!
There are people on this forum that know way more than me about how the repair will affect the value of your rifle.
The repair is not difficult for someone familiar with the proper fitting of a muzzle loading rifle breech plug.
Just my 2 cents worth, A rifle that works is always worth more than one that don't!
Good luch with what ever you decide!
:thumbsup:
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The repair is not difficult for someone familiar with the proper fitting of a muzzle loading rifle breech plug.
Just my 2 cents worth, A rifle that works is always worth more than one that don't!
Good luch with what ever you decide!
:thumbsup:
SC45-70
