Brand new uberti 1860.....Wow

[ian45662]

Well I got a uberti 1860 and although I am new to the colt type revolvers I have shot cap and ball revolvers alot. All I can say is wow and what a HUGE let down this has been. Right off the bat I replaced the stock nipples with Track of the wolf stainless which stick out longer than the stock nipples do. With out fail I will have atleast 2 chambers that do not go off and some times all 6 because they need to be struck by the hammer 2 or 5 times. Accuracy is not what I was hoping for. I was looking for something in the range of 2" at 25 yards on a rest but 5 or so is the best I can do with 2F, 3F, round ball and conical. The first time I had it out I was only able to put 12 rounds through it and it took the better part of an hour to do that because the only thing I could think of was that the hammer grew or the frame shrank causing the hammer to bind and it was damn near impossible to pull it back to cycle a new round. Well I had to take the hammer off and file down where it had rubbed the frame .After about 120 rounds today I had to do that yet again. I am not sure how loose the wedge key is supposed to be but it comes out pretty easy. Almost slides out while I am firing it. When I first took it out I fired 12 caps to make sure the chambers were free of oil. Each cap fired as it was supposed to. That was the last time that has ever happened. I slugged the barrel and the cylinders and they are about .003 smaller than the size of the bore. What gives here? Anyone else had problems with these things. Like I said I am new to colts but I shoot C&B revolvers competitively so I am not a novice at this. This revolver is brand new

 

[Dphar]

Where did you get the Uberti from? What did it cost?
Not all Unberti's are created equal.
There appears to be 2-3 grades of Revolvers from most Italian makers, including Uberti.
If the importer wants to sell the gun cheap they cut some corners.
I once bought one right the Uberti USA years ago that was a second quality, maybe.
The sad part is some outfits sell the second quality stuff for the higher price. Either by design or because they don't know any better.
The effect is the same.
If you buy a new percussion revolver for less than about 350 or a little more you are likely getting something less than best available quality and might be anyway.

If the hammer is striking the caps then its not the guns fault its misfiring.

Dan

 

[ian45662]

Out of the 1000 of the same batch of caps I have fired out of my remington exactly 0 have failed to detonate. #11 RWS is what they are. I got the gun from buffalo arms and is a cimarron import It cost 300 but I was under the impression that cimarron was a quality importer. What do I do. I hope I am not stuck with this thing

 

[Zonie]

Did you even try the original nipples?
There's a good chance they would work alright and they might even eliminate the misfires.

I am assuming TOTW sent you pistol nipples? There's a lot of difference between them and rifle nipples with the pistol nipples being about .280 long from the shoulder to the end of the cone and a rifle nipple being about .450.

It's common for almost all C&B revolvers to have undersized cylinder bores.
This is true with both the Colt and the Remington reproductions.

Dixie Gunworks catalog says the Uberti 1860 Colt has .449 dia. chambers with .452 dia. grooves in the barrel.

The Uberti New Model Army Remington has .450 dia. chambers and .460 dia. grooves in the barrel.

There are a few revolvers which have chambers equal to the diameter of the rifling grooves but you have to look thru the Dixie catalog to find them. A couple are the Pietta Remington New Model Army "shooters" revolver and the Euro Arms Rogers & Spencer.

 

[ian45662]

Well Zonie I didnt think it would work because the stock nipples are shorter but I tried it anyways and your suggestion was good. The stock nipples work. The nipples I ordered were for this particular gun but that does not mean thats what I got. I am going to call them monday and see about some ampco ones. Thanks. Now onto the next issue. The wedge is really loose. Should I order another one? The barrel has just a TINY bit of wobble or slop and it isnt that much at all but its there. If I take out the screw that keeps the wedge from falling out and gently tap the wedge in until it moves no farther then the barrel is as solid as a rock.

 

[Zonie]

If all is well, you should be able to screw that 'retaining' screw in far enough that the wedge will tighten up the barrel securely before the wedge touches the screw head.

Also, the mark of a well made Colt is the length of the barrel arbor and the depth of the bore in the arbor hole in the barrel.

When everything is right, the arbor will bottom out in the hole in the barrel at the same time the bottom of the barrel just touches the front of the frame.
When this happens, the cylinder should have about .003-.010 fore and aft movement.
Very few of the reproduction guns will pass this test so don't be worried if yours doesn't.

Usually, the arbor hole in the barrel is too deep, allowing the wedge to force the barrel into the face of the cylinder, locking it up.

When this happens, some will install a thin washer into the arbor hole to set up the barrel/cylinder clearance when the wedge is snug.

If the gun were mine, I wouldn't buy a new wedge.
Chances are the new one will be worse than the one that came with the gun.

 

[Glenfilthie]

I have the same gun. I did the nipples too because they looked gimpy and the caps were a little loose. The fine fellas at TOTW sent me the bronze alloy ones and they worked like a hot damn.

I think one of our cohorts in crime has some reliability tune up tips on YouTube too which I will get to...but mine works fine. And - unlike you I am a newbie to these pistols.

Something is definitely amiss with your gun.

 

[nilo52]

Zonie,
The only trouble i've had with my Uberti 3rd model Dragoon was a broken hand spring. I think I just wore it out. I got a replacement from VTI and everythings fine now. I used a digital micrometer to mike my cylinders and bore and my gun seems to have a good match. I don't know why.
I tried to measure things as best as I could, is there a certan way your supposed to measure it (lands VS grooves) that I'm unaware of ?
thanks for your help,
nilo52

 

[Zonie]

Many Cap & Ball revolvers have an odd number of rifling grooves in the bore. 7 is common.

This makes measuring the bore size or the rifling groove size almost impossible with normal measuring devices because they measure directly across the diameter placing one tip on the bore and the opposite tip in a groove.

There are special measuring gages made for measuring bores and grooves with an odd count but they aren't something that is easily found or inexpensive.

 

[ChrisPer]

Odd number of grooves?
At British Militaria Forums the experienced guys recommend just rotating the projectile/slug between the jaws of the vernier or micrometer. You can feel the right measurement just fine.

 

[ian45662]

I have been playing around with the gun and things are getting better. If I take out the screw that holds in the wedge and push the wedge in as far as it will go the wedge has no slop. The gun seems to like conicals better than round balls and 2F better than 3F. Even though groups off the rest are not as good as I hoped off hAnd groups are about as consistent as the groups shot with revolver that had great bench groups. So the gun shoots better than I do

 

[phoenix511]

As for the cyinder ID being somewhat less than groove diameter, that's a fairly common issue with Italian replicas.

Slugging the odd numbered groove barrel and gently turning the slug in a mic can get you very close to groove diameter. A telescoping guage will get you the ID of the cylinders, which often are not exactly "round."

It is possible to carefully use an adjustable hand reamer to open up the cylinder to barrel groove diameter. Only need to open about 0.50" at the mouth of each chamber as this is where the bullet will seat.

And some say the bullet will bump up to the groove diameter when fired, some say a smaller-than-groove cylinder does not make much difference in accuracy, some say best results obtained with cylinder/groove diameters being equal.

I'd say try some shooting with it the way it is. Maybe try a thin washer to keep the cylinder gap at 0.003" or greater to prevent locking up. Removing metal is a non-reversible process.

 

[Dphar]

Out of the 1000 of the same batch of caps I have fired out of my remington exactly 0 have failed to detonate. #11 RWS is what they are. I got the gun from buffalo arms and is a cimarron import It cost 300 but I was under the impression that cimarron was a quality importer. What do I do. I hope I am not stuck with this thing

Thats disappointing, Cimarron I mean, I would contact them they have a warranty. I think. http://cimarron-firearms.com/Ret-RepairPolicy.htm

I hate buying C&B revolvers except in person.

Dan

 

[ian45662]

I found A stiffer main spring and reliability is 100% Also the caps are no longer getting into the action because the hammer is not being blown back when fired

 

[reddog97]

Where did you find that spring? My Uberti Colts like to jam because of cap fragments. Thanks

 

[ian45662]

Lodgewood mfg