BP handgun for hunting

[Dave Rosenthal]

All this advice is excellent but it applys to more than just handguns. At a certain distance I know what I can do, and what my accuracy is, because I shoot it often. I have a new Walker coming I know I won't take it hunting this year because I haven't shot it enough. I am comfortable with the accuracy of my 36's but not the power for this application.

A handgun is a tool just like a rifle but the extra power, range, and ease of accurate shooting of the rifle minimizes the shortcomings of the user. If I keep all my shots within a 2" circle at 25 yards with a 44 caliber cap and ball using adequate powder and a heavy enough bullet I know, within an inch or two, where I am going to hit as long as I stay within 25 yards.

As much as a lot of practice, knowing your gun inside and out, BP pistol hunting means knowing your limitations and when not to shoot as much as when to shoot

Excellent post! Yes I meant my comments to be inclusive of both long guns and hand guns. And practice is the key to success, whether it be target, hunting or competition. Rifle OR pistol, the same rules of conservation apply...take only those shots you KNOW will effectively harvest one of God's creatures. That's why when I harvested my hog last April, I de-cocked and re-holstered the mighty Walker, to the utter dismay of my somewhat impetuous Guide. Instead of taking a pot-shot at over 25 yards with the animal on the move, I stalked and got closer and took a shot with the animal presenting a still target at a broadside angle, thus the double-lung shot with a one-shot stop! The result was a clean kill with minimal meat damage.

Dave

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Very good point on the terrain & vegetation! Not every Hunter endures the same challenges. Here in NJ, during the regular season, we can't touch a rifle to deer hunt, EXCEPT for ml's, and this is why so many Hunters have opted to "extend their season". Some actually sight-in their rifles BEFORE they go into the woods & others, well, they shoot at a deer and wonder where the round went...

Dave

 

[Wes/Tex]

Two excellent points. Our season here doesn't even start till mid-November and there's no guarantee the weather will be cool enough to get the whitetails out of the thick brush. I can hunt in 100 degrees because I'm used to it. It's not pleasant but it can be done. I'd probably be a goner in real cold and snow, we close schools when the first flake hits the ground! It's just depends on what you know.

Sadly, your second point is much too on the spot. I feel like I've seen it all and have twice run into new muzzleloaders who couldn't tell you what they were doing...almost literally. One put the patch on the powder and was puzzled why the ball kept rolling out! The other thought the patch went on top of the ball...yes, we still talk about those two at deer camp!

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

:thumbsup: We're on the same page for sure!

Gotta get ready for the sack, since I've got a Novelty Shoot in the morning: Card cuttin', Wood-Chompin', balloon-bustin all with explosives & replicas, lol! So have a good one!

Dave

 

[Dphar]

If I were hunting deer with a ML pistol, and I have in the past, I would use a 8 to 10" rifle twist barrel (48 to 66" twist) in 50-54 caliber flint or percussion pistol. 50-70 grains of FFF and a patched RB.
This I know works. I have owned several percussion revolvers over the years but never had the desire to shoot a deer with one.

The BP/standard velocity 44-40/38-40 is a dismal deer cartridge. The later HV Smokeless was probably better but the others are pretty poor. A 54 pistol will work better IMO at least as far as wound channel. It does not take much to kill a deer a heart shot with a 22 RF will kill them dead, lung shots too I am told by people that used them.
So a deer dropping dead from a heart shot with a 45 does not mean a solid lung shot will not allow them to go 200+. I have had them run that far with a 50-54 RBs and even a 44-90 Sharps with a blunt soft bullet. So shooting them with a percussion revolver? Yeah, it will work but don't expect deer to drop at the shot unless shooting miniature deer or very lucky. For that matter many heart shot deer do a panic run.
A Walker or a Dragoon would be the best choice for a percussion revolver IMO.
Dan

 

[Alden]

One might argue that a Colt Walker or Dragoon are essentially the ONLY revolvers that should be used for medium-game hunting...

 

[M. De Land]

I agree and having multiple shots at hand would also be a real advantage in some situations.
Two .44 holes, if quick about it, would let a lot of blood out and air in for a humane kill. But the hard truth, from the practicality aspect, is that one can only reasonably count on a single well place shot to get the job done as there seldom is time for an accurately placed second. Hence were back to a big bore single shot as making a lot of sense! Mike D.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

One might argue that a Colt Walker or Dragoon are essentially the ONLY revolvers that should be used for medium-game hunting...

That's why I had one of each on my hips for the Hog Hunt in April :wink: .

I am considering the possibility of using my 1858 Remington New Model Army Buffalo .44 the next time out. With 35 grains of 3Fg Goex and a wonder-wad, the .454 balls were VERY accurate today...accurate enough to win a Turkey at the Annual Club Novelty Shoot. The thing shot right to POA! Location, location, LOCATION, lol!

Dave

 

[rodwha]

And when it's been shown over and over to have the capability to pass through I think that pretty much settles it. It all comes down, as with any other hunting weapon, to hit the vitals. If you can do so reliably then you are good to go. If not you ought to reconsider.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

And when it's been shown over and over to have the capability to pass through I think that pretty much settles it. It all comes down, as with any other hunting weapon, to hit the vitals. If you can do so reliably then you are good to go. If not you ought to reconsider.

Exactly! :thumbsup: Yesterday I was hitting 1/2 liter water bottles with ease, as well as several other smaller novelty targets. Aim small, miss small, aka fish or CUT BAIT!

Dave

 

[nkbj]

Or that you can do it twice in a row! Perhaps you can but some folks that shoot pistols(particularly off hand) have a lot in common with lightning! :rotf:

Twice't? There was only one of them. Darn shame too seeing as making head shot went through the right shoulder. Tore him up so bad we had to flavor the rice with frogs and sap sucker.

 

[jaxenro]

Not exactly a pistol but pistol based what about the Remmie carbine with 18" barrel, 40 grains of T-7, and a Kaido flat nose bullet? Thoughts?

 

[Walks with fire]

We do alot of deer drives here in PA; the deer come in quick and are looking and checking for their next move. They rarely stop long enough for a standing shot and if the do stop you need to get on it quick.

I have taken many deer with center fire handguns and they work good in the above situation but I have never thought for a minuite that a flinter pistol would be as quick as my PA Hunter 21" carbine. I paper patched the Hornady PA conicals for that carbine and they shot well and had some thump to them but now just shoot ball. I would have a flint pistol if I saw any advantage to it but for close range the carbine is my choice.

I have no doubts a flint pistol would work very well when tuned properly. Any trigger can be tuned well if you know what your doing. Tuning a TC lock and single trigger is a piece of cake. Fifteen years ago I may have wanted a flint pistol but not today.

If hunting with one do the work and have at it; just be honest with your abilities. IMO that time that is lost is in getting the hammer back; I hate the design of a flint hammer. It needs to have something welded on the side that your thumb can rest on to be quick. Idaho Ron showed a pic of the percussion hammer that is bent to the right and it would be quick and handy; can't do that to a flint hammer though. A ghost sight would be a huge plus as well.

 

[Black Jack]

I guess you could make whatever modifications you like; after all, it's your gun and your business. But my opinion, and it is just a personal opinion, is this: if you are going to "modernize" your pistol to this extent, why bother trying to use a primitive muzzleloader at all as the spirit is lost. Just get a TC Contender if you want to hunt with a handgun.

 

[Walks with fire]

To me; and this is just my opinion as well; the primitive is in the flint ignition and black powder, single shot. Modification to make it more effective in speed of use while retaining your self imposed accuracy standards has it's benifits. I have long rifles as well and enjoy using them but in close quarters they are not as quick as a handgun or carbine type rifle would be.

Several times last winter I had driven deer within a few yards of me in seconds while hunting with a long rifle and by the time I got the rifle cocked and up the shot opportunity had passed. Being able to draw back the hammer on a shorter carbine length barrel as the gun comes to your shoulder looking through a ghost ring style peep sight hardly seems like modernization to me but I can see where some people see the need to do it just the way it was done years ago to be primitive.

If shots are going to be longer and more time is available then yes the longer gun is better but fit the tool to the job.

 

[crockett]

Walks: have you ever thought about a double barrrel shotgun with buckshot- if it is legal in your area- that would seem better than the handgun.
I can shoot a handgun "okay" but for ethical hunting (for me at least) the animal has to be pretty still and very close.
This thread has generated a lot of interest.

 

[Walks with fire]

Our "primitive" season requires a .45 or greater single ball or bullet, flint ignition, single barreled rifle or handgun of .50 or greater. Open sights with fiber optic and peeps being legal now. No double barrels allowed. I do not use a shotgun for anything other than wing shooting; I don't like them and they wouldn't be legal for flint deer season. It would work quite well though and it's a good point.

I am quite good with a CF handgun and they are legal here for our regular whitetail season. I can shoot pop cans at 75 yards all day long with my CF handguns and they are tuned for that accurate shooting and wear open sights. I highly doubt I could do it with a muzzleloader handgun. I don't know; I have never shot a flint handgun and don't want one either. IMO it would not cover the bases well enough for both short and longer ranges were a carbine length barrel does.

The original post was about using a BP handgun for deer and yes I think that with practice it would be fine power wise as far as you could hit with it consistantly. My point was that with a carbine length barrel it's just as quick to bring to battery as the handgun, probably more accurate and also has the ability to shoot the longer ranges better than the handgun.

 

[rodwha]

The carbine may be nice. I've wondered about the 1858 Buffalo or .44 cal Navy carbine barrel with a stock as it's a little handier in thick brush (thinking hog hunting).

You'd certainly need to always be conscious of your off hand's placement!

 

[Kylongrifle]

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/202409/

 

[broknaero]

I've been thinking about this for some time. Been a few smaller posts on here over the years but not as extensive as this one. In PA we are restricted to Flintlock with .50cal min in pistols. Love the video of the guy using the customized .50 cal bounty hunter (Thats a pedersoli pistol that was customized) taking a deer. That 16" barrel you might as well be carrying a carbine. I guess if it's your primary weapon then thats fine.

Someone pointed out the pedersoli suggested max load of 20-30 gr. Thats because of the way the stock is designed. Load 50 or 60gr in a Bounty or a Kentucky and you can break the stock. Some folks have done some customizing to overcome this and now can pack 50-60gr.

I hane not hunted with a black powder flintlock. Just did a few years of reading up on it. I personaly would feel comfortable in the .54 to .58 cal rifled 10"- 12" range. Thats where I'm looking now. .54 for the power and to match the ball I use in my rifle, and .58 for the EXTRA power. What ever I decide will be carried in season back up to whatever I'm using as a primary weapon. I hunt some areas that a 20-30 yard shot is comon. If I had a suitable flintlock pistol and had a 20-30 yards standing shot I would pull the pistol.

Lots of good info in this thread.

Thanks!