BP handgun for hunting

[M. De Land]

I wouldn't classify the gun he used as a pistol, more like a carbine with the butt cut off! :grin:
Never did care for long barreled hand guns, it defeats the whole purpose for their existence and it is just as easy to carry a rifle which is far more practical and powerful. Mike D.

 

[BGRooster1]

I was about to post links to some youtube video and decided instead to just say "If in doubt of the effectiveness of a cap & ball revolver.Go to youtube and in the search, type in "Black powder revolver hunting".
I have many articles from 30 years back and can't believe how many "experts" didn't know squat about what they were writing about when it comes to cap & ball revolvers or black powder.

 

[dickydalton]

A Kaido 255 grain stuffed full of Swiss 3F is still a loser next to a 44 Special with a 250 grain Keith in front of a bunch of 2400. Why are we arguing about proven facts? In Minnesota it's against the law to shoot deer with a ROA so I don't carry it. I have shot deer with 44 magnums and it worked out fine. I do carry one or the other of T/C Flint or Percussion 50 Cal. in regular season but haven't had the chance to shoot one of them yet. :v

 

[rwiliff]

I just got an email from the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish assuring me that my first model dragoon is legal for javelina. Oh boy.

Warmest Regards,
Robert

 

[rodwha]

If the bullet goes through and through how does it lose?

I wouldn't want to use it against anything huge, but it's certainly up to the task of hunting medium game. It's not a magnum and shouldn't be treated as such, but it doesn't take a magnum to kill deer.

 

[54MAN]

I think part of the reason so many people have so many different opinions on the matter is because 1. they haven't actually done it themselves to see the results be it good or bad and 2. some people live in areas where the deer are the size of dogs and others live where deer are the size of a mini elk ha ha

MY OPINION for what its worth is that deer are FAR from bullet proof... and are fairly easy to kill... I REALLY enjoy hunting with pistols and plan on using a walker to do it with WHEN I buy one (be prepared for more walker threads/questions lol.

I have only shot one deer to date with a pistol... deployments has a way of keeping you out of the woods but i hope to remedy this soon.... The deer I shot was a spike buck... weight 120 pounds dressed... so not a huge deer by a long shot BUT not the smallest either... pistol used (I know not a BP but I'm using it for reference and because the power generated is comparable) was a xd 45. ammo used was a cheap rem hollow point 230 gr 850FPS advertised out of a FIVE inch barrel... xd i used had a FOUR inch barrel so MV would be a bit lower... distance was 10 yards.... it was a perfect heart shot and the deer took 2 steps and dropped dead in front of me.

the bullet hit a rib going in and on the way out... 45 hole in 55 ish coming out (complete pass through).... SO based of my personal experience a cap and ball 44 will do the job for sure on a deer of similar size... and given complete pass through i would say larger as well...

Ultimately its just good shot placement... once you have that generally speaking whatever you shoot at will have the desired result be it deer or paper...

 

[dickydalton]

You are right. But, "In Minnesota it is illegal to hunt deer with a cap and ball revolver."
So I don't. I have shot 2 deer with a 44 magnum S&W 629 scoped. 1 at 85 yards and 1 at 187 yards, both with a rest and the deer standing still. I would not have even tried at 85 yards with a ROA. I have 15 or 16 muzzleloaders and love shooting them but don't feel the need to try and make them more than what they are. :surrender:

 

[rodwha]

I thought the thread was about whether or not these percussion pistols can humanely kill deer... :idunno:

It may very well be illegal in MN, but it's not everywhere.

From a solid rest and with a full charge of Triple 7/Olde Eynsford, which would likely add another 50 ft/lbs or more, I don't know that I'd shoot at deer at 85 yards. It doesn't have a scope, nor will it. I wouldn't likely do it with a 44 mag either. I'm not good enough regardless.

 

[crockett]

Well lots of "ifs". It is true that in some areas deer aren't much bigger than a golden retriever dog and at 20 yards a shot through both lungs will do the job.
One thing about the pistol. If you are right handed and sitting on the ground in thick cover and a deer sneaks in behind you on your right- you will have to move the long rifle a long way around to shoot and the deer will be gone. With a handgun you can make a shot if the deer is only 10 yards or closer.
The guys that worked up those loads with the Kaido bullet, etc. I figure the load approaches a 44/40 but isn't quite up to that level HOWEVER if a 44/40 or 44 special uses a hardcast lead bullet and the kaido is soft/pure lead- it seems the soft lead might do more damage and therefore be very close to a 44/40. The 44/40 out of a lever action (much higher velocity) probably has killed more deer than any other round, possibly excepting the 30-30.
Therefore, it seems a 44 Rem 1858 loaded to maximum is okay for close range, small deer BUT it is mimimal. I run a trapline some years and use a 22 rimfire to dispatch the critters. Sometimes a yote in a snare just won't go down, even at point blank range and at those times I wish I had more "gun". A muzzle loading rifle will always be the better deer killer IMHO, nothing wrong with the pistol under suitable conditions but obviously the rifle is best.

 

[satx78247]

Until "the coming of" the .44 Magnum handguns, the Colt's Walker was BY FAR the most powerful & "regularly available" handgun in the USA.
(HUGE bore "howdah pistols" excepted.)

The "Big Walker" outclasses the .357 Magnum as a "venison collector" by a wide margin.
(In the Northeast TX bayous/swamps where I hunt WT, the "long shots" are 30M or sometimes much less.- You cannot SEE farther than that.)

just my opinion, satx

 

[Alden]

I enjoyed that video. The pistol-shooter didn't seem to have a choice -- not sure what was going on in that regard but good for him. That was one sweet, honkin', pistol.

Was it one of THE Dixon's that lent it to him? It WAS in PA!

 

[don hepler]

Tim Farmer, is the host of KY afield TV show, and was invited to shoot a deer with a custom built flintlock pistol. He lost use of his arm, in a motorcycle accident. The pistol was a flintlock, with a 16 1/2", 1 in 18 twist, 55 grains 3f, rb, moving at 1450 FPS, and 800 ft. lbs. of energy.

Tim Farmer Story on youtube, very moving story.

I hope to build a similar pistol. I'm working on a 45 flintlock pistol, Re-do, that someone started, but never finished.

 

[rodwha]

That was a very nice pistol indeed!

The few caplock pistols I've looked at don't have a max charge as high as that, and I can achieve more power with my ROA and a heavy conical. I'd prefer a pistol such as his as a primary hunting weapon, though I'd want a slightly shorter barrel.

 

[Rusty_Nail]

....The pistol was a flintlock, with a 16 1/2", 1 in 18 twist, 55 grains 3f, rb, moving at 1450 FPS, and 800 ft. lbs. of energy.

Tim Farmer Story on youtube, very moving story.

I hope to build a similar pistol. I'm working on a 45 flintlock pistol, Re-do, that someone started, but never finished.

Unless somebody copied it really well, I believe that pistol he shot the doe with is a Pedersoli Bounty Pistol. It's a Kentucky pistol stock, with the longer barrel, and brass extension in lieu of nosecap.

 

[Patocazador]

I have a T/C Patriot .45 cal. pistol that shoots 200 gr. REAL bullets very accurately with 30 grs. of 3FG. I would have no problem using it to hunt deer within 40 yds.

 

[BGRooster1]

If I remember right,oh ,wait I'll just get the magazine with an article by William Hovey Smith. The recommended load for the Bounty is from 20 to 30 grs ffg and a RB. W.H.S. figured the barrel used was the same as for rifles only shorter so he worked up loads until he got to 90 grs.
He did try an assortment of projectiles,even some unmentionables. He also mentions that at 70 grs. recoil is stout.
Rounball accuracy fell off in his pistol passed 50 grs. and for the regulations in his state that would not meet the 500lb. muzzle energy requirements of 2003.
It is the same pistol used in the video you speak of ,I have watched it many times.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Lot of interest in this subject. I just jumped in.
A few thougths.
In many states ml pistols are not legal for hunting. Arkansas has restrictive rules that essentially prohibit them.
That said:
I once knew a fellow who regularly poached deer here in Arkansas with a Ruger Old Army. He claimed it was very effective. However, I have to take into consideration he was a law breaker. If he lost some, or many, only wounded he didn't say.
The biography of the real Jeremiah Johnson has a scend where he shoots a horse and the ball/bullet/whatever goes through the animal end to end.
Personally, I wouldn't do it. Power alone is not the issue. I am a former competitior with pistol and know that accurate pistol shooting is very difficult and only the most practiced individuals are capable of hitting anything smaller than a barn wall with one. Hunting with a pistol, for 99.999% of the population would not be an ethical endeavor, IMHO.

 

[nkbj]

Well, 'til you quick drawed a '61 Colt and shot a running field mouse you just don't know you can.

 

[M. De Land]

Or that you can do it twice in a row! Perhaps you can but some folks that shoot pistols(particularly off hand) have a lot in common with lightning! :rotf:

 

[dickydalton]

Up here we shoot the wings off the flies for practice. The skeeters're too big to be a challenge..... :rotf: