Best Quality 1851 Navy Colt?

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

I am looking at Navy Colts. After furthering my education this coming weekend, I will have a job the following week.

Thing is, it will be carried for defense now and again. Though I might get a conversion cylinder for it, I do prefer the damage done by the pure lead balls. The package may have the raw power of a .380, but these things damage all out of proportion to their power factors.

There is simply no handgun which points better or more instinctively for me, save for my 1911 - but that, I spend days with a file shaping the grip to my hand "just so."

Additionally, I learned to shoot handgun on a single action. Even with modern revolvers, I have a habit of thumb cocking them, though it's not generally advised. It's just the same motion as sweeping off a 1911 safety, and the muscle memory is there.

What I require is a very high quality piece which will not break in a jam.

Do they make these?

Thanks,

Josh

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

O-K, Josh, two very important questions:
1. What kind of defense? Are you worried about a snake in the woods or boys in the "hood"?
2. Are you prepared to spend $400.00 plus more for the supplies? If so I would stick with an Uberti or an Uberti by Cimmaron, which has a more refined fit & finish.

A C&B revolver isn't the best defensive gun, due to caps jamming-up the works at the wrong time, but in a pinch, they can be used. I'd stick with my 1911, carried in Condition One, with a Cant-Forward strong-side Mitch Rosen in-the-pants leather holster, but that's just me.

Remember that any gun used to defend your life requires hundreds of rounds be put through it so that you can work-out any kinks, PRIOR to it being put into service in defense of life! And that bi-weekly (monthly at the least) practice sessions with it to maintain muscle memory are necessary to keep your "edge" with this historical piece.

Good luck!

Dave

 

[Josh Smith]

Hello Dave,

Personal self-defense from any predator, two- or four-legged, would be its role.

I usually carry a 1911 in a Ken Null OWB holster with a spare mag on the offside. It's mostly build to MEU(SOC) specs, and was one I worked on for something like two years to get just right.

There are only a few other pistols which feel right: A 4" S&W M19-3 which I foolishly sold years back and have been unable to replace, the Colt open-tops, most notably the '51 Navy but the .44 Army feels almost right, and then the Schofield.

For cheap practice, I don't think the '51 Navy could be beaten. Even if I drop in a .38spl cylinder for carry, muzzleloading for me is cheaper than shooting .22LR.

I shoot several hundred rounds of my .45acp reloads per week to stay in practice, and a lot of initial practice with the cap'n'ball revolver followed by five shots per night would be quite enough to keep me good.

Uberti was what I was thinking, but wasn't sure. Thought maybe there was a domestic manufacturer.

The 1911 took a bunch more money than $400 to get right, though I now know exactly what I want in that package, so the next one will likely only be around $750 to build.

But yes, for a reliable defensive pistol, $400 is a good price these days, and the minimum I'd expect to spend.

Thanks!

Josh

 

[JMinnerath]

This is 2010, not 1910 or 1810.
If I figured I had a need for personal protection of life and property it would be a modern firearm and not black powder.

 

[TFoley]

Uberti was what I was thinking, but wasn't sure. Thought maybe there was a domestic manufacturer.

Sir, there are NO domestic manufacturers of C&B revolvers, and haven't been for a long long while.

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

 

[Dphar]

Hello,

I am looking at Navy Colts. After furthering my education this coming weekend, I will have a job the following week.

Thing is, it will be carried for defense now and again. Though I might get a conversion cylinder for it, I do prefer the damage done by the pure lead balls. The package may have the raw power of a .380, but these things damage all out of proportion to their power factors.

There is simply no handgun which points better or more instinctively for me, save for my 1911 - but that, I spend days with a file shaping the grip to my hand "just so."

Additionally, I learned to shoot handgun on a single action. Even with modern revolvers, I have a habit of thumb cocking them, though it's not generally advised. It's just the same motion as sweeping off a 1911 safety, and the muscle memory is there.

What I require is a very high quality piece which will not break in a jam.

Do they make these?

Thanks,

Josh

I would recommend Cimmarron Firearms.
Never had one but if I had to buy one sight unseen this would be where it would come from.

If I could not find one of the early Colt marked reproductions I could hold in my hand before buying. The Squareback TG with Colt markings is one of my favorites. These were Uberti final finished by H&R here in the US or so I was told.
Uberti and just about everyone else in Italy makes, it seems, several grades of percussion revolvers and I have gotten one direct from Uberti USA years back (1862 Police in this case) that I figured was second or third quality.
Cimarron seems to hold their feet to the fire.
Dan

 

[Dphar]

For self-defense the 1860 Army is the best.
IMO. Light and has better power. Carried a Western Arms 1860 full flute (allows carrying 6 chambers loaded) for about 2 years.
Dan

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

The fully fluted 1860 Army comes in a beautiful charcoal blue from Uberti. Several of us at the Old Bridge Range have them, and they really shoot straight! Cimarron quality from Uberti! Cylinder lock-up is nice & tight! Like being able to put 2 rounds out of 5 into the X-ring of a B-19 target from 50 yards away (about the size of a quarter!). It likes the 27 grain charges I feed it, looks great, operates smooth and does have more power than a .36!

Dave

 

[loki04]

Sir,

You may be comfortable with a modern gun, but perhaps he is more comfortable with a cap and ball '51. My grandfather told me once to 'carry what you are comfortable with.' And the cap and ball pistols worked for quite a while for self defense guns.

Although, that will be one hell of an odd police report (and a surprised cop when he gets there.)

Loki

 

[Coot]

Re the best '51 Navy, the Colt Second Generation are very hard to equal. Not produced for years, they can still be found on sites like Gunbroker & Guns America. For current production, Uberti makes a very nice gun. Neither of these are inexpensive but you asked for the best.

Re real self defense needs, I strongly recommend that you consider a modern centerfire.

 

[Norinco]

Sir,

You may be comfortable with a modern gun, but perhaps he is more comfortable with a cap and ball '51. My grandfather told me once to 'carry what you are comfortable with.' And the cap and ball pistols worked for quite a while for self defense guns.

Although, that will be one hell of an odd police report (and a surprised cop when he gets there.)

Loki

"Uh, how do you unload this thing?"

 

[Josh Smith]

Thanks folks.

I have a modern centerfire. I am wearing a MEU(SOC) 1911 replica, .45acp, as I type this.

I'm equally at home with single action revolvers.

The only difference is the reload: Reloading a cap'n'ball comes in the form of a backup gun - and I carry one of those too, in the form of a Ruger LCP.

A bit of background if I may:

When I was 21, I was in college working on a law enforcement degree. I had been carrying for three years and had some excellent instructors from the get-go.

I got bonded and opened my own lil' security/bounty hunting company. It was fun, but I did end up on the winning side of a couple of shootouts when things went south.

I do not say this to brag at all, and hope ya'll won't hold that part of my life against me.

I no longer do that sort of work. I'm now in health care and happy enough to be away from that sort of life.

However, I came away with some definite ideas about personal and principle protection. One of those ideas is that it's better a first-rate man with a second-rate weapon than vice-versa.

Additionally, a friend of mine, as a police officer, was armed with state-of-the-art arms at the time, and had all sorts of advanced training. He had also served in combat in Vietnam.

He found himself exchanging lead with a suspect one day, and was hit in the pelvic girdle, taking him down but not out. He and his partner finished the fight.

The suspect was using a Colt Thunderer in .41.

I just do not feel as if I would be handicapped with 19th Century technology, and in fact, feel that there are a few advantages to it we've overlooked in modern times.

Just because we have modern weapons does not make the old weapons any less effective than they once were.

Thank you very much,

Josh

 

[tg]

Years ago I had a '51 Navy Coly by Navy Arms it was very well built and very accurate, this type of gun to me becomes an extension of my hand more so than any hand gun I have evey used. it is a bit light in the original .36 cal but plenty good for in home defense and one could make a conical for it to add some mass,I never felt "unsafe" with this little gun holstered to the nightstand beside the bed. I do not know who makes the best today back when Colt was re running some of their revolvers I heard some good things about those

 

[T.C.Albert]

What Coot said...get a second generation Colt, they are still available even in unfired new condition with a little looking...you can have it lettered...its a good investment...and it will make you wonder why you thought the others were good enough...thats been my experience anyhow...
TC

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I have many Cimmaron Uberti Colts. I shoot them in CAS. Even though mine are heavily modified. They are not dependable enough to use for self defense.

I agree that they are the best looking and pointing revolvers ever made. Although i think a 1860 Army with a 5 1/2" barrel points better than a 51. My opinion anyway.

If I was you, i'd get one of the C&B Colts and put a conversion cylinder in it. Then you have the gun you want, and it won't let you down when you need it the most.

When you want to just play around with it burning powder. Put the C&B cylinder back in it.

 

[Mossyrock]

I recently had the same dilema, and solved it by buying both an Uberti 1851 Navy (used) AND a Second Generation Colt 1851. I did that on purpose, to compare them. That comparison yielded some interesting results. First off, from a fit and finish perspective, the Colt wins, hands down. Polish, blue, and color case are superior to the Uberti offering. The action on the Uberti is, at this point, smoother than the Colt. Keep in mind that the Uberti is used and has been fired and cycled more. Internal finish are pretty equal: they are both rougher than I would like. I had to lengthen the arbor on the Uberti, but the Colt was just the right length.

The Uberti shoots very close to point of aim, while the Colt shoots about 8 inches high at 50'. That will be corrected with a taller front sight. Surprisingly, at 50', the Uberti is more accurate than the Colt. This can be traced back to undersized chamber throats on the Colt compared to the Uberti. I don't have the measurements handy, but the Colt was around .003" smaller than the Uberti, so the balls had to "slug up" in the bore.

From a practical perspective, considering cost, availability and accuracy (from my limited test sample), the advantage seems to fall to the Uberti. Now, having said that, my goal is to turn the Colt into the "Ultimate 1851", with the best action job I can come up with, a brass gripframe with round trigger guard (personal preference), ivory grips and every trick and tip I can find to make it as good as it gets.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I like the way my 1860 handles and shoots and I think the smoke & fire erupting from it would be very distracting to an opponent. If I had to use it to defend my life I would not feel unarmed. But no cap & ball would be a good choice for that purpose, even the best tuned and set up revolver is still subject to cap jams.
As to which is best out-of-the-box, I think it is a manure shoot. Most people prefer Uberti but I have had to work on quite a few Uberti's, same as Pietta or Armi San Marco. I just reworked a Uberti 1862 for a friend because it would not unlatch the locking bolt when fired. I found that the bolt would not reset, not snap over the cam on the hammer, unless fully down on an empty nipple. The thickness of a cap on the nipple would prevent it from releasing the locking bolt. It should never have left the factory like that but it did, so you just never know.
One should bear in mind that even with recent price increases an Italian C&B revolver still sells for about half the price of a Ruger Blackhawk and the C&B is a more complex piece of machinery with more things to fit up and more things to go wrong. If you're really set on a single action revolver I'd make it a cartridge gun. Yes, people did defend their lives with C&B revolvers but the serious folks switched to cartridges as soon as they became available and for many reasons besides speed of reloading.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Not sure if you know this, but Uberti made a lot of the parts in your SG Colt.

Colt did the finish work on the parts, but for the price they should be better than the Uberti. I have little doubt that Uberti could make as good or a better gun than Colt if you wanted to pay for it. :wink:

 

[Mossyrock]

Not sure if you know this, but Uberti made a lot of the parts in your SG Colt.

Colt did the finish work on the parts, but for the price they should be better than the Uberti. I have little doubt that Uberti could make as good or a better gun than Colt if you wanted to pay for it. :wink:

Yeah, I know. I just wish Uberti WOULD make a "Premium" model with REAL color case hardening and with serial numbers in ALL of the correct places and those damn proof marks hidden under the grip frame! If they did those things and properly finished and hardened the internals and screws, I would stand in line for one!

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Uberti does a lot better job then Pietta. :wink:


I agree about the premium model. I'd buy one too. I should have bought one from Colt when they were available.