I agree -- I have three CW rifle muskets and they range from 0.578" to 0.582" but as said you never know what you have until you get an accurate measurement.
-
This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.
Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades -
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
Best .58 Minie Bullet Mold?
- Thread starter ChadVance
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
EN
36 Cal.
I have had excellent results with the Lee 90475 minie ball. It is a full wadcutter minie that is about .575/578 dia. (depending on which one you get). It weighs in at about 470 to 480 grains. Works well in both my Zouave and 1861 Springfield with anywhere from 35 to 50 grains ffg. Very accurate. They don't make them anymore but they keep turning up on ebay and elsewhere. There is another company that makes this design and is a steel mold but very pricey if you don't mind.
EN
36 Cal.
Since this thread is back, here's a couple comments and probably your best course.
Comments- there are lots of folks who get into the "minie" game and don't understand what's going on. First off, rifle bores vary widely. Don't ever trust what you've read stamped on a barrel, from a manufacturer (like Pedersoli), on the internet or from a utoob reenactor. You have to measure the bore of your specific gun. No way around this if you want accuracy in the end. There are lots of minie designs and different guns may or may not shoot the same minie well. You have to experiment. There is no shortcut here either. Mold designs vary. You can buy a mold from Lee, RCBS, or whomever at some listed diameter, and if you buy two of the same mold, I guarantee they'll drop a different diameter bullet. No way around this either, lead alloy, casting temp, casting pace, etc all affect the size of the minie as cast. Back to different guns, one of my shooting associates owns a 1st gen Birmingham Parker Hale just like mine and we're about 800 serial numbers apart. In testing, it will not under any load combination shoot the same bullet mine does to the same degree of accuracy. However, his gun will shoot a bullet that mine won't group acceptably. The bullet in question is the RCBS Hogdon and my gun will stack them into one hole at 50yd. His gun, 12in group with keyholes. Of the other bullet, my gun won't shoot much better than 7in, his stacks them into 2in and that's with minimal load development. Lastly, use real, quality black powder and caps. Subs generally don't play nice with minies and yes, garbage caps like CCI can affect your accuracy along with other things. Reasons are multiple, partly subs aren't chemically the same as real bp so lubes don't perform the same and since the minie relys on skirt expansion, the pressure curve on a sub is different from real bp. One last comment, many reenactors drill out the flash hole in a nipple for "more reliable" ignition. That wouldn't be a problem if they used good stuff to begin with and weren't shooting blanks. In shooting live fire with a minie, reliable skirt expansion is key to accuracy and a huge hole in the nipple won't help. We consider them a wear item in competition shooting and replace them often.
Your best course of action- determine your bore size. Get a sampler of bullets from CWBulletman at Lodgewood-
Bullets
Do buy a sizer appropriate for your gun. They're available from several sources and are generally sized by .001in. Good part about the sizer, you'll always need it for your gun regardless of what mold you use. Size the bullets for your gun and test. Whatever groups best, then consider that mold. If you just go on internet lore, you will be disappointed and spend lots of $$ chasing a mold that doesn't work. Don't get hung up on brand because of price. Some Lee molds are ok, but there is much better available. A saying I heard long ago, buy once, cry once. Get the right stuff first time out and you save money and frustration in the long term.
So my Parker Hale does this with the RCBS Hogdon-
My 1862 Colt Contract "Springfield" does this with the Rapine "trashcan" similar to the discontinued Lee-
Comments- there are lots of folks who get into the "minie" game and don't understand what's going on. First off, rifle bores vary widely. Don't ever trust what you've read stamped on a barrel, from a manufacturer (like Pedersoli), on the internet or from a utoob reenactor. You have to measure the bore of your specific gun. No way around this if you want accuracy in the end. There are lots of minie designs and different guns may or may not shoot the same minie well. You have to experiment. There is no shortcut here either. Mold designs vary. You can buy a mold from Lee, RCBS, or whomever at some listed diameter, and if you buy two of the same mold, I guarantee they'll drop a different diameter bullet. No way around this either, lead alloy, casting temp, casting pace, etc all affect the size of the minie as cast. Back to different guns, one of my shooting associates owns a 1st gen Birmingham Parker Hale just like mine and we're about 800 serial numbers apart. In testing, it will not under any load combination shoot the same bullet mine does to the same degree of accuracy. However, his gun will shoot a bullet that mine won't group acceptably. The bullet in question is the RCBS Hogdon and my gun will stack them into one hole at 50yd. His gun, 12in group with keyholes. Of the other bullet, my gun won't shoot much better than 7in, his stacks them into 2in and that's with minimal load development. Lastly, use real, quality black powder and caps. Subs generally don't play nice with minies and yes, garbage caps like CCI can affect your accuracy along with other things. Reasons are multiple, partly subs aren't chemically the same as real bp so lubes don't perform the same and since the minie relys on skirt expansion, the pressure curve on a sub is different from real bp. One last comment, many reenactors drill out the flash hole in a nipple for "more reliable" ignition. That wouldn't be a problem if they used good stuff to begin with and weren't shooting blanks. In shooting live fire with a minie, reliable skirt expansion is key to accuracy and a huge hole in the nipple won't help. We consider them a wear item in competition shooting and replace them often.
Your best course of action- determine your bore size. Get a sampler of bullets from CWBulletman at Lodgewood-
Bullets
Do buy a sizer appropriate for your gun. They're available from several sources and are generally sized by .001in. Good part about the sizer, you'll always need it for your gun regardless of what mold you use. Size the bullets for your gun and test. Whatever groups best, then consider that mold. If you just go on internet lore, you will be disappointed and spend lots of $$ chasing a mold that doesn't work. Don't get hung up on brand because of price. Some Lee molds are ok, but there is much better available. A saying I heard long ago, buy once, cry once. Get the right stuff first time out and you save money and frustration in the long term.
So my Parker Hale does this with the RCBS Hogdon-
My 1862 Colt Contract "Springfield" does this with the Rapine "trashcan" similar to the discontinued Lee-
"Comments- there are lots of folks who get into the "minie" game and don't understand what's going on." dave951, post #26
"I just bought a Zoli Zouave (or some other common repro Civil War gun) and it won't shoot a mini accurately, what round ball and load should I try? I hear and read this often and I believe the above statement about covers it all.
"Best .58 Minie Bullet Mold?" The best mold will be the one that gives you your desired results with your gun and that requires experimentation and an understanding of the effects of all the variables. It's much easier to pick a round ball size and patch thickness than it is to start cold and make a minie rifle shoot accurately. Start by measuring the actual bore size and buy the correct sizer. Borrow or buy different minies, sans defects, from reliable sources and experiment with different charges and even granulations. Asking questions will get you in the ball park but only shooting from the bench will tell you which is the best bullet (mould) for you. BTW I know people who shoot different bullets and loads at 50 & 100 yards.
The best answer I can offer is to thoroughly read dave951's post (#26) and follow it to the letter.
"I just bought a Zoli Zouave (or some other common repro Civil War gun) and it won't shoot a mini accurately, what round ball and load should I try? I hear and read this often and I believe the above statement about covers it all.
"Best .58 Minie Bullet Mold?" The best mold will be the one that gives you your desired results with your gun and that requires experimentation and an understanding of the effects of all the variables. It's much easier to pick a round ball size and patch thickness than it is to start cold and make a minie rifle shoot accurately. Start by measuring the actual bore size and buy the correct sizer. Borrow or buy different minies, sans defects, from reliable sources and experiment with different charges and even granulations. Asking questions will get you in the ball park but only shooting from the bench will tell you which is the best bullet (mould) for you. BTW I know people who shoot different bullets and loads at 50 & 100 yards.
The best answer I can offer is to thoroughly read dave951's post (#26) and follow it to the letter.
When I wrote my previous post (#27) I did so with the goal of only extreme accuracy and I believe Dave951 did so too. In the N-SSA accuracy and speed are both important to win team matches and we tend to focus on the two. It was not my intention to discourage anyone from buying a mini rifle and going out for a good time. There were times when I truly had a fantastic day shooting minute of pie plate groups up in the gravel pit behind the house and sometimes I wish I could go back to those days. I won't tell you how bad I did with my first C&B revolver but I'll say I had more pure fun with it than my S&W .41 mag that I loaded for and hunted with. It's all about picking a gun and going out for a great day of shooting.
Yep measure the bore first. My Zouave says .58 but the bore was slightly under. More of a .577 to groove. So a .575 then sized just enough to clean the side. Sizer made from a good steel, a drill press and a micro reamer by hand. Made a mandrel that fits the skirt base and I use the drill press to push through the sizer. The Lee mold seems to make a pretty heavy skirt and 65 grains pushes it nearly. They also work well in my Navy Arms Buffalo Hunter. But then it's basically a shortened Zouave.
Archer 756
40 Cal.
NSSA has vendors that make molds and also plugs that are for measuring bore dia,
59sharps
40 Cal.
RJ how you been. CW
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2012
- Messages
- 326
- Reaction score
- 36
RJ--Is 45 grs of 3F the standard N-SSA target load?
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2012
- Messages
- 326
- Reaction score
- 36
RjSixgun: Is 45 grs of 3 F considered to be the most accurate competition load at N-SSA?
The use of 45 grains would depend on the performance of the musket with that load.
That depends and it's often determined through experimentation. A load in the 40ish range is common with 3f but it's analogous to a load in the low 50s with 2f. The real benefit is less powder consumed and quite often much less fouling. The rule of thumb when working with 3f v 2f is to cut charges by 10% or a bit more and work from there. My PH uses 42g 3f while my 62 Colt uses 45g 3f and my 42 Macon soothbore uses 65g 3f.
Way to determine the best load is to change only ONE variable at the time and ladder test. A ladder test is to load rounds in graduated amounts from low to high and find what gives smallest groups. Of course, proper bench techniques are critical. Those used with modern suppository guns generally won't work well with muzzleloaders.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2012
- Messages
- 326
- Reaction score
- 36
dave951--I appreciate that loading data. Know what you mean about working up a load. What's interesting to me are the loads in the 40's and getting away from the standard 60-grain load for accuracy purposes. These 40ish-grain loads for the .58 caliber musket appear on the Forum from time to time and are intriguing.
Twenty or thirty rounds of rapid fire with 60 grain loads can get tiring, read that as painful. A long time ago I spent a couple of weeks of intensive range sessions with loads in the 60 grain area and I reached the point where it hurt just to snap a cap. Most Civil War guns shoot best with loads from 40 to 50 grains of 2 or 3f and some folks will drop below that and some feel a need to go above.
The N-SSA competes in a speed/accuracy competition and you have to be able to shoot at speed with accuracy. Very often, as with suppository guns, the most accurate load isn't always the most powerful but power is useless if you can't hit anything. I know the original historic load was 60g 2f, but part of the question is this- does our modern powder equate in any way shape or form to that produced over 150yr ago in wartime conditions. Extensive testing would tell, but the supply of original powder is very limited and of course 150+ years old so any testing would be anecdotal at best.
So we're back to the starting point with the Minie design. We have to work up a load that will fulfill Minie's concept and again, that means experimentation. Going on historic record in my opinion is not valid for reasons stated earlier. We're working with modern production consumables. I know some will insist on using historic data with modern powder, caps, etc, but again, there is NO way that they can say with complete certainty that it's the same as what Johnny Reb and Billy Yank carried.
But hey, what do I know. Check out a 40g 3f group. Want this or something that might hit a 12in circle at the same distance just to say you're burning 60g 2f?
RjSixgun
32 Cal.
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2008
- Messages
- 154
- Reaction score
- 119
For me yes, its also my hunting load, but not all muskets are the same, so...........
Follow these steps:
Size your minie's to 1-2 thousandths under the bore size. then make up charges from 35-60 grains of 3F in 5 grain increments (5 per each powder charge) then using a large piece of paper at 50 yard shoot 5 shots at the same spot. Mark the target with what load it was shot with and move on to the next target and powder charge also at 50 yards.
DO NOT worry about where the musket is shooting, you dont care at this point! all you are looking for is the smallest group and what powder charge makes it.
After you find the powder charge that has the smallest group, then and only then do you sight the musket in to hit the target where you want it to hit.
