Basic engraving

[skywarp]

Okay, so I apologize in advance because I know this has been asked a lot. I'm sure I've read every topic on all 166 pages of this forum, but I don't quite understand yet. :surrender:

All I want to do is be able to put my name on the barrel of my rifle, freshen the markings on my Brown Bess lock, initial a thumb plate, etc. REALLY BASIC. Mostly I just want something I can play with and start learning. I know it will take lots of practice.

I don't want to buy a $200 sharpening jig or two dozen gravers.

Track of the Wolf sells graver points and handles, and I've seen suggestions for what kinds to get -- but they have dozens. Which of their selection should I be looking at? And how can I keep it sharp without an expensive jig? There must be an "old way" to do it, right?

Thanks for your patience, all...

 

[jerrywh]

With all due respect, You will get what you are willing to give. For less than $200.00 you will get where you are now. The old engravers had some kind of jig even if it was home made. Gravers must be very precise and maintained that way consistently in order to do nice work.
Let the argument begin.

 

[Birddog6]

That is exactly correct. It will give you back what you put in it, if you are willing to spend the time.

You could call Brownell's & buy a #9 Die Sinker Chisel and go to a sporting goods store or Woodcrafts & get a medium & fine diamond sharpening stone & a fine Ark. oil stone or slip stone & you can do the name & thumbpiece easily. Don't know about chasing the Bess engraving as don't know what it looks like, but your Die Sinker will be the most forgiving tool for you, as they are big & tough. If it comes unsharpened, email me & I will walk ya thru it.

Keith Lisle

 

[Mike Brooks]

Buy McKinzies video first. I use his sharpening methods. I use 3 gravers, all square, just sharpened different. I probably have $120 in my basic engraving equipment.
Jerry, by the way, is probably one of the top engravers in the country and uses far more engraving tools that I do. I'm just pleased to be at the level that I am! :haha:

I probably ought to add that I have never seen McKenzie's video, but I'm assuming he shows the sharpening methods he taught me years ago.

 

[LRB]

An excellent suggestion. I got more from McKenzies tapes than any other source. I probably have only a third of the amount of Mikes investment in my tools.

 

[Birddog6]

Had I bought the Die Sinker chisels first, the only graver I would have bought is a line graver & probably saved $300 in the past 10 years I wasted on gravers.

I will never do the class of what Wick does or Jerry H. does, but I still keep a humpin' at it.

I have all of Lynton's DVD's... Have slept thru every one of them several times. :redface:

 

[saber]

this is one of the best site on handengaving and air engaving Steves universal point engraver can be used by hand and hamer with handle take a look at the albums on the site and tools you can spend as little as you went or a lot God bless http://www.engravingforum.com/

 

[matt denison]

I can't emphasize how important knowing how to sharpen and maintain an edge is. I'm not an engraver like Wick or Jerry but I was like you and just wanted to do some simple stuff like my name and chase cast-in engraving to spruce it up. Struggled until I finally took a class where the most important thing I learned was how to correctly sharpen the tool. From there it is a lot of practice and patience. When the tool works right it all seems to come together and your confidence builds.

Don't forget to invest in an Optivisor at least 10X power and good lighting.

L.Dog

p.s. Another HUGE trick I learned was to lubricate the cutting edge periodically while engraving. Duh, why didn't I think of that on my own? I put a couple of drops of oil on a small piece of cotton and dip the tip of the engraver on it before each cut.

 

[skywarp]

My profound thanks to all of you. I ordered a die sinker #9 but I'll have to wait until next month for the DVDs from Brownells. In the meantime I have plenty of other work on my rifle to do, and I'll keep reading. I imagine engraving on the metal parts can be done at any time after the rifle is finished without too much extra trouble.

:thumbsup:

 

[Mike Brooks]

I imagine engraving on the metal parts can be done at any time after the rifle is finished without too much extra trouble.

As long as you haven't already browned or blued the metal.

 

[skywarp]

I imagine engraving on the metal parts can be done at any time after the rifle is finished without too much extra trouble.

As long as you haven't already browned or blued the metal.

Good call! :v

 

[jerrywh]

Or case hardened them.
One point that everybody seems to overlook about McKenzie's system is this. He always checked his graver geometry under the microscope after he sharpened. A correct heal is rarely over .020 long and must be exactly equal on both sides. If you can see that good with something else that will be good. A very strong magnifier is just as good if your young.

 

[engravertom]

Sorry to be late to the topic, but I'll add my .02

Cutting a name and initials well is one of the harder tasks for an engraver. Lettering, when well done,looks great! When it is not well done, it looks really bad.

The McKenzie videos are excellent. You also would benefit by borrowing or buying Meek's "Art of Engraving", and pay especial attention to the chapter on lettering.

For much less money, you could get a copy of "The Jewelry Engravers manual". Even though it doesn't cover hammer and chisel, the information on drawing lettering and monograms is well worth the 11 or 12 bucks it might cost.

While you are waiting for your tools to come in, try some sketching of what you eventually want to engrave. It is much easier to re draw than to re file and re cut.

Best of success to you!

Tom

 

[jerrywh]

Now days I mostly use a gravermach but in the past I learned with hammer and chisel. I don't find one any harder than the other. the main difference is the time factor.
I am stating this for this reason. The best tape I ever saw on script engraving is don Glaser's. Brownels sells don Glaser's engraving tapes. For those who don't know Don Glaser invented the gravermax and started GRS engraving school which in my opinion is the best group engraving school in the world.
Although Don demonstrates his script with the gravermax all the rules and techniques apply to hammer and chisel. Included are the best instructions for sharpening all type of gravers.
Personally I read Meeks book 5 times and never learned much from it until I got a lot more experience. But. Everybody is different.

Hello Tom. Have I ever met you in Reno??

 

[LRB]

It was much the same for me Jerry. I loaned my Meeks, " The Art of Engraving" book out, years ago, and it never came home. I don't think I have ever missed it, but I do like the McKenzie tapes.

 

[engravertom]

No Jerry, I have never made it to Reno yet. I work for Turnbull MFG, and am not part of the traveling crew!

I hope to get out there someday though. Lots of folks I would like to meet in person.

Thanks for the tip on the GRS vidoes. I guess Meeks' book worked for me because I was using it while in school, down in Troy NC with Jesse Houser.

take care,

Tom

 

[matt denison]

My first book on engaving was Meeks' Art of Engraving. It confused me. It went from chapter one "sharpening the tools" straight to doing incredibly intricate wildlife drawings and backgrounds. Where were the scrolls and folutes? I only wanted to do some simple 18th and 19th century enhancments on side plates, my name etc. One thing that he said and that I did was start drawing more. I'm a doodler anyway but I changed the doodles to reflect what I wanted to someday engrave. Every little scrap of paper, grocery list, note pad is covered with my scrolls now. If you can't draw it you can't engrave it. I lent my copy out too and don't miss it.

 

[engravertom]

OK, I'll confess, I sold my copy years ago too! have you checked out Ron Smith's Drawing and Understanding Scrolls?

take care,

Tom

 

[matt denison]

I do have that book. I got more out of it in the first 15 minutes that I had it than anything from Meek. The key with that book is the understanding part. I've copied his techniques for creating scrolls with pencil and paper. For some reason mine don't look as good as his :hmm: I'd recomend it to anyone just beginning 'cause it is relitively cheap and has some good basic information. It reinforces Meeks instructions of draw, draw, draw. If you can't draw it you can't engrave it.

And, I would be interested in the tutorial that you propose doing. Great idea, long overdo for this forum. Thanks in advance for our effort.

L.Dog aka Matt Denison

 

[jerrywh]

Learning to cut is the easy part. Learning the art work is a lifetime project. Ron Smith's scrolls are totally different than 18th century designs. 18th century design is basically rococo
scroll and art. Studying 18th century furniture decoration will be of advantage.