Ardesa Rifles

[Murray]

Hello
What are everyones thoughts on Ardesa rifles for a beginner?

 

[albert]

Well,I am going to ask....,what is Ardesa Rifles?, is that a gunmaker?,or a type of rifle? I have never heard of that one.

 

same question - never heard of them.
: Can you post a picture?
: What others are available that look similar?
: What price range?
: What style?

 

[ResearchPress]

Well,I am going to ask....,what is Ardesa Rifles?, is that a gunmaker?,or a type of rifle? I have never heard of that one.

Ardesa are a Spanish firm of arms makers.

David

 

[Murray]

Ardesa are a Spanish firm of arms makers.

David

Yes thats right does anyone have their homepage url?

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Murray, I would stay away from Ardesa products. The quality is at best spotty. If you are trying to decide whether you want get into black powder shooting get someone to let you use their gun and help you out. An inexpensive firearm can be a good thing, but a cheap one is always a nightmare.
I don't think Ardesas are imported into the U.S.A. anymore, but one that I saw years ago had a barrel that had been bored from both ends. This might have been alright except that the bore did not meet in the middle. The lock innards were stamped and the springs were as limp as week old lettuce. Not a happy situation at all. I suppose quality could have improved over the years-- I doubt it could have gotten worse.

 

[arilar]

Seen some of their rifles 15-20 years back in Sweden. Cheap and rather low quality. If possible I agree with Frizzen, start with a little better quality.
ARILAR

 

[Zonie]

I answered this in the duplicate post before I noticed that this post is getting the answers.
I deleated the duplicate post. Hope that's ok.
Anyway, getting to my answer:

I really don't know anything about Ardesa except what I found on the WEB.
Their guns are made in Spain, and they "ship 80% of their production to the United States."
This leads me to believe they are very likely the guns CVA imports into this country.

They make pistols, "Kentuckys", "Hawkens", In Lines and others. (Their Blunderbus is, in my opnion, very odd).
A link I found that shows a few of what they produce is:
Some Offerings

This link shows what a company called Kaliber offers and includes Uberti and Pedersoli guns. Just look for the Ardesa in the right hand column.

I note that several of the rifles in the link, seem to be either rifles offered by "Traditions" in the USA. In fact, there is a box of a kit gun which says Traditions on it.

In general, the guns which are made in Spain are relatively inexpensive and serviceable arms, but are not up to the quality of the Italian producers.

I hope this helps you a little.

 

[Murray]

Well the cheapest one retials for 2000 South African Rand which is +-$330 US. So i suppose that says alot. I really want a rifle that I am not going to get too serious with but is not overly expensive and reliable. Really just for hunting.

 

[Keith]

If those Ardesas aren't what are sold as Traditions you could fool me. And, that blunderbuss is pretty odd looking.

 

[Murray]

www.ardesa.com

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Well, that first rifle that comes up under the classic heading looks a lot like the one I remember from years ago. Even has the two piece stock with brass spacer. The wood on the one I saw looked like a builder of apple crates would have rejected it.
The lock made those old Jukar locks that CVA used to use look like a precision instrument. I guess when your quality is non-existent, you have nowhere to go but up.

 

[mark/wi]

I have to say Keith is right. I have some Traditions, They look the same to me. Also like CVA. Mark/wi

 

[Zonie]

Murray: If you do go ahead and buy one of these Ardesa rifles, I would suggest you avoid the Flintlocks.

Flintlocks are great when they work, but they have to be built correctly to work.
By this I mean the alignment of the flint with the frizzen must be "just right" to work. The frizzen must be correctly hardened to produce the shower of sparks required to get reliable flashes in the pan. The touch hole in the barrel should be releaved (or coned) on the inside of the barrel to permit the powder to be close to the outside of the barrel. (This is one reason for installing a properly made liner. I doubt that Ardesas guns do this). The mainspring must have enough power to drive the flint the full length of the frizzen.... The list goes on....

A Precussion lock is not as fussy provided the hammer is aligned with the precussion nipple properly.

I also note that the offerings by Ardesa shown in the link in my above post are all .45 caliber.
Perhaps some other supplier can provide these in a .50 caliber which (in my opnion) is much more suitable for hunting purposes.

 

[Murray]

So do you think I should rather wait a while, get some more money together, learn more about the sport and then make a more educated decision and buy a more worthwhile rifle(better quality, reliability etc...)?

 

[Zonie]

So do you think I should rather wait a while, get some more money together, learn more about the sport and then make a more educated decision and buy a more worthwhile rifle(better quality, reliability etc...)?

Whether you wait or not is entirely up to you of course but before suggesting that you invest in one of these rifles, I must ask, Do you have access to a supply of 2FFg or FFFg Black Powder, or one of the substitutes like Pyrodex, or Triple7seven? You cannot use ANY smokeless powder in one of these guns.

Do you have access to .440 or .445 diameter lead roundballs (for a .45 caliber), or .490 or .495 dia for a .50 caliber gun?
Although you can shoot elongated projectiles, the roungballs are typically much less costly, and usually more accurate.
Are #11 Precussion Caps available at a cost you are willing to pay?

If you have access to powder, Caps and projectiles then there is nothing stopping you from buying one of these guns.

IMO, $330 sounds like a lot, but we people in the USA are somewhat spoiled by the deversity of muzzleloaders available and the moderate costs here.
If this is the best price you can find, then I suppose you have to live with it.
I would suggest that you check out any other source to see if a Italian gun is available for not a lot more.
Uberti and Pedersoli are typically high priced. Investarms, Armi-Sport, Pietta and Palmetto (as they are called in the USA) are all Italian companies with fair to good quality. All of them are IMO better than the Spanish products.

If you are looking at pistols and see "Classic Arms" made in the USA, stay away from them. They are all so low on the pole, they don't deserve talking about them. They give new meaning to the word BAD.

Looking at the catalog link in my first post I will give you my opnion of what I see. This opnion is based on the CVA (Connecticut Valley Arms) guns I've owned or seen.

KENTUCKY: Stay away from this one. The CVA version has a reputation for poor qualilty. I have never known someone owning one of these who liked it.

HAWKEN: Very much like the CVA HAWKEN which has been on the market for over 25 years. It is a servicable rifle and has served many people as a good starting place for muzzleloaders. Although it is not considered High Quality, it has no real problems that I am aware of.

HAWKEN CHALLENGER: This gun looks very much like the CVA Mountain Rifle. If it is close, it qualifies for being one of the best guns CVA has ever put on the market. This gun is probably worth the money.

RANGER: This is very close to a Traditions Hawken. The comments above for HAWKEN also apply here.

BLUNDERBUS: What can I say. It doesn't look like any Blunderbus I've ever seen in photos or drawings. It is not in a shotgun caliber (Blunderbusses were shotguns) and it would be impossible to aim accuratly with it's flaired muzzle.

Should you buy one? All I can say is shooting black powder arms is great fun! It permits shooting a relative powerful rifle which doesn't have the kick of a modern smokeless rifle.
The best way I can describe this statement is: a modern smokeless cartridge seems to develop its velocity almost immediately so it gives a Sharp Kick when it's fired. The BlackPowder gun seems to accelerate the ball/bullet in a smoother, longer manner so it gives a rather hard Push when it's fired.

Let us know what you decide.

 

[Murray]

Zonie thanks so much for your advice i really appreciate it!
I must admit that i haven't done very much research as to what products are available in South Africa, but I know that the sport has a large following here and I am arranging to spend a day with a BP club in my area within the next two weeks.

I recon that i probably am rather going to go with a better quality brand, you pay for what you get.

What about Lyman rifles i know for a fact that they are available in this country and seem to be of a better quality then Ardesa: http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/index.htm

Thanks again for your help everyone I am truely blown away by the support and kindness of everone on this forum.

 

[brushbuster]

murray
i do not have one but many members of this forum own a lymans great plains rifle and swear by them .i use many other lyman products(bullets,molds etc.) and find them to be of very good quality.if i were to buy a starter bp rifle i would start with a lyman gpr or a thompson center hawken(i do own this rifle)both of these rifles can be found used through gun brokers etc. :imo: :m2c:

 

[Murray]

I recon I better start another thread about Lyman rifles then because I have cold feet about these Ardesa rifles.

 

[OldSmoky1967]

Murray: If you do go ahead and buy one of these Ardesa rifles, I would suggest you avoid the Flintlocks.

Flintlocks are great when they work, but they have to be built correctly to work.
By this I mean the alignment of the flint with the frizzen must be "just right" to work. The frizzen must be correctly hardened to produce the shower of sparks required to get reliable flashes in the pan. The touch hole in the barrel should be releaved (or coned) on the inside of the barrel to permit the powder to be close to the outside of the barrel. (This is one reason for installing a properly made liner. I doubt that Ardesas guns do this). The mainspring must have enough power to drive the flint the full length of the frizzen.... The list goes on....

A Precussion lock is not as fussy provided the hammer is aligned with the precussion nipple properly.

I also note that the offerings by Ardesa shown in the link in my above post are all .45 caliber.
Perhaps some other supplier can provide these in a .50 caliber which (in my opnion) is much more suitable for hunting purposes.

I have an Ardesa flintlock pistol and I have never had any issues with it firing. Also, the quality of the build is perfect. Maybe the old ones were junk 30 years ago, but I bought mine 3 years ago and I love it.