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Aqua Fortis color vs Chambers stain
- Thread starter Davemuzz
- Start date
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Yes, with aqua fortis "strong water" you are introducing a iron solution into the soft portions of grain to accent the curl or figure. With heat a reaction occurs that makes the figure "pop" as you see on many highly figured stocks.
Stain is just that, a topical solution that penetrates and darkens the wood.
Jim does make a aqua fortis solution, are you referring to that or actual stain?
Stain is just that, a topical solution that penetrates and darkens the wood.
Jim does make a aqua fortis solution, are you referring to that or actual stain?
It's his actual stain. Chambers web site It's his product #FK-S. I sent in (just yesterday) an order for both the stain and his Stock Finish: #FK-F. I thought I would try both. However, I called his number and they are out of town until today or tomorrow. I figured I would have better luck mailing him an order than trying to get him on the phone after being gone for a time.
I already purchased Aqua Fortis from TOTW. I'm looking to "want" some red in my final outcome. So, I thought I'd post the question here to you experienced guys.
Dave
I already purchased Aqua Fortis from TOTW. I'm looking to "want" some red in my final outcome. So, I thought I'd post the question here to you experienced guys.
Dave
rich pierce
70 Cal.
Stains are more predictable than aquafortis. But I use aquafortis exclusively.
54ball
62 Cal.
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On the other hand....
If the AF solution is applied heavily and the main thing..... a lot of heat is applied, the stock can be very dark. So with maybe too much heat and a heavy application, AF can be very dark.
No, I'm not meaning scorching the wood. If you keep going with it, you can get almost black.
If not enough heat and or a suspect solution is used, this can cause another problem. Green stocks.
My dinky semi-custom ( I got ripped off) has gone from a pleasing brownish reddish hue with" pop" to a mix of baby poop green, dog pile brown with a stale urine " pop". This took about 15 years.
In my opinion AF is not quite the magic bullet it's made out to be.
It can be beautiful, maybe there's nothing better. It's all on how it's done and the quality of the solution.
One thing it's great for is surprises. AF is great for bringing out " hidden" figure.
Stains....
If stains are done right they too can really accent the " pop" but they will not have that same Wow! you get with AF. I feel stains are easier with a more stable result and you can play around with combining different color coats.
Over time stains can fade out.
What ever is chosen comes down to application. This is a skill.
If the AF solution is applied heavily and the main thing..... a lot of heat is applied, the stock can be very dark. So with maybe too much heat and a heavy application, AF can be very dark.
No, I'm not meaning scorching the wood. If you keep going with it, you can get almost black.
If not enough heat and or a suspect solution is used, this can cause another problem. Green stocks.
My dinky semi-custom ( I got ripped off) has gone from a pleasing brownish reddish hue with" pop" to a mix of baby poop green, dog pile brown with a stale urine " pop". This took about 15 years.
In my opinion AF is not quite the magic bullet it's made out to be.
It can be beautiful, maybe there's nothing better. It's all on how it's done and the quality of the solution.
One thing it's great for is surprises. AF is great for bringing out " hidden" figure.
Stains....
If stains are done right they too can really accent the " pop" but they will not have that same Wow! you get with AF. I feel stains are easier with a more stable result and you can play around with combining different color coats.
Over time stains can fade out.
What ever is chosen comes down to application. This is a skill.
Agreed, I feel AF is certainly not a apply and be happy solution were stain is obviously much more user friendly.
As you mentioned, a skill is involved, just another one to add into the long rifle tool box!
For maple, I personally feel AF is the cats meow. Like lye to cherry, just makes it beautiful!
As you mentioned, a skill is involved, just another one to add into the long rifle tool box!
For maple, I personally feel AF is the cats meow. Like lye to cherry, just makes it beautiful!
Nothing brings out figure like AF. However, you get the color you get. It's a chemical thing. AF reacts with the tannins in the wood.
I use ferric nitrate.... no need to neutralize.
Properly done, it will NOT turn green.
The nice thing.... you can change the inherent tones with alcohol based stains, and still keep,the advantages of AF.
I use ferric nitrate.... no need to neutralize.
Properly done, it will NOT turn green.
The nice thing.... you can change the inherent tones with alcohol based stains, and still keep,the advantages of AF.
Not responding just to Dane, but for clarification, I have the Aquafortis Reagent from TOTW.
I assume, from what I've read, that the TOTW is a more diluted solution than ferric nitrate solutions that some use.
I will test the Aquafortis Reagent on the scrap wood I have from my stock. Now, should I choose to use it, does it require (or is it a good idea) to neutralize it once I have the color I want?
I believe I've read that using a baking soda and water "bath" followed by a rinse with clear water will stop the continued dark change over time. Is this true?
Thanks!
I assume, from what I've read, that the TOTW is a more diluted solution than ferric nitrate solutions that some use.
I will test the Aquafortis Reagent on the scrap wood I have from my stock. Now, should I choose to use it, does it require (or is it a good idea) to neutralize it once I have the color I want?
I believe I've read that using a baking soda and water "bath" followed by a rinse with clear water will stop the continued dark change over time. Is this true?
Thanks!
I just see no reason to go through the process of neutralizing AF. Soaking a nice piece of wood in baking soda and water, is just not what I want to spend my time doing.
I don't know how much residual acid is left in AF, but there is not enough to worry about in ferric nitrate.
When it's where you want it, and dry.... put on your finish.
You can buy enough from the Science Co., for about $10, to stain a dozen rifles.
I don't know how much residual acid is left in AF, but there is not enough to worry about in ferric nitrate.
When it's where you want it, and dry.... put on your finish.
You can buy enough from the Science Co., for about $10, to stain a dozen rifles.
rich pierce
70 Cal.
This photo shows the variety of tones I get with AQF on one block of wood. Different batches and multiples of application. The bottom photo is enlarged, other side of same block, a favorite tone and pop. This chunk has been abused in my shop for 15 years, so it’s a little ratty.
Black Hand
Cannon
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Get Chambers' Oil Finish - it has a red tint that enhances the red tones brought out in the Maple by the Aquafortis reagent.Davemuzz said:
You mentioned wanting some red in the final outcome.
If you rely on only Aqua Fortis you are at the mercy of the wood and the solution.
Each piece of wood will react differently and the only way to know what you will get is to test it on a piece of wood from the stock you have.
Another seemingly identical piece of wood cut from a different place on the same tree will react differently.
You might get some red and you might not.
If you are serious about wanting to have some red tone, IMO, the best way is to have some alcohol or water base mahogany stain handy.
After doing your Aqua Fortis thing, if the results are not giving you the red tone you want, thin the mahogany stain down using either water or alcohol by a factor of at least 5 parts thinner to 1 part of stain. A 10:1 ratio might even be better.
The idea here is to sneak up on just the right amount of red tint.
Being greatly thinned, each coat will add just a little red but because the stain is alcohol or water base you can repeatedly re-stain the wood to make it darker and add a little more red.
Do remember, the actual color and darkness will only show while the stain is wet. When it dries, it will look much lighter.
I should add, even with alcohol based stains, the final results will depend greatly on the individual piece of wood you are working with.
The rifles in the following photo were all stained only with various color alcohol based stains.
Some just with walnut. Some with maple and some with a combination of walnut, maple and mahogany.
Aqua Fortis was not used on any of them.
maplestripesweb by James, on Flickr
If you rely on only Aqua Fortis you are at the mercy of the wood and the solution.
Each piece of wood will react differently and the only way to know what you will get is to test it on a piece of wood from the stock you have.
Another seemingly identical piece of wood cut from a different place on the same tree will react differently.
You might get some red and you might not.
If you are serious about wanting to have some red tone, IMO, the best way is to have some alcohol or water base mahogany stain handy.
After doing your Aqua Fortis thing, if the results are not giving you the red tone you want, thin the mahogany stain down using either water or alcohol by a factor of at least 5 parts thinner to 1 part of stain. A 10:1 ratio might even be better.
The idea here is to sneak up on just the right amount of red tint.
Being greatly thinned, each coat will add just a little red but because the stain is alcohol or water base you can repeatedly re-stain the wood to make it darker and add a little more red.
Do remember, the actual color and darkness will only show while the stain is wet. When it dries, it will look much lighter.
I should add, even with alcohol based stains, the final results will depend greatly on the individual piece of wood you are working with.
The rifles in the following photo were all stained only with various color alcohol based stains.
Some just with walnut. Some with maple and some with a combination of walnut, maple and mahogany.
Aqua Fortis was not used on any of them.
maplestripesweb by James, on Flickr
Terrible looking smoke poles... Send them my way asap. To alleviate the misfortune of owning such rifles I'll glady cover all shipping costs... :grin: :wink:
The stain that's sold by Jim Chambers is Laurel Mountain Forge "Nut Brown". About 15 years ago I used this stain on a Turkey rifle, I wanted a dark rifle to help camo the rifle. I applied it full strength followed by 8 hand rubbed coats of Chamber's Original Oil finish.
I had used LMF stains before with the same hand rubbed Chambers finish and curl really looked good. But the Nut Brown seemed to subdue and muddy the curl in the rifle but after a lot of work with the finish the rifle was acceptable.
Not much red in my rifle. I would recommend diluting the nut brown and using one or two coats followed by a top coat of LMF Cherry stain to get your red tones. But if it was me I'd leave off the Nut Brown and stain with LMF Maple or Cherry.
Whatever you choose apply it to a piece of scrap wood first to see what you really get.
I had used LMF stains before with the same hand rubbed Chambers finish and curl really looked good. But the Nut Brown seemed to subdue and muddy the curl in the rifle but after a lot of work with the finish the rifle was acceptable.
Not much red in my rifle. I would recommend diluting the nut brown and using one or two coats followed by a top coat of LMF Cherry stain to get your red tones. But if it was me I'd leave off the Nut Brown and stain with LMF Maple or Cherry.
Whatever you choose apply it to a piece of scrap wood first to see what you really get.
Well, I took a piece of the scrap wood, did some minor "clean up" sanding, then did one application of Aquafortis, followed by a heat gun. Then (on the right side) I applied two coats of True Oil just to see what it would look like. The brown is nice......but I want some red hue in it. I've done some reading about using letter dyes to get this reddish color.
Col. Batguano
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Neutralizing with lye will give you a bit more orange after the AF / FN treatment, and make the stripes jump even more than neutralizing with ammonia or baking soda will. Some folks go to the trouble to boil ashes to get it, (that's the HC/PC way) but I just used the household drain opening stuff. Just make sure it's pure lye, and not with a bunch of additives like many commercial products have.
Also, make sure to wash the stock well after the lye application, or else when it dries, you will have a bunch of lye dust to get off of there too. It's a bugger to get it all out of the recesses and crevices in carving.
Then give it a diluted "wash" of some reddish (or what ever color you want in the end) stain, and knock that back with steel wool That will take some of the stain off the wood in between the darker stripes, and make them jump even more.
Also, make sure to wash the stock well after the lye application, or else when it dries, you will have a bunch of lye dust to get off of there too. It's a bugger to get it all out of the recesses and crevices in carving.
Then give it a diluted "wash" of some reddish (or what ever color you want in the end) stain, and knock that back with steel wool That will take some of the stain off the wood in between the darker stripes, and make them jump even more.
