.490 balll and .010 patch?

[Blackfoot]

Anyone had any good results with a green Mountain Barrel in .50 cal utilizing a .490 ball and .010 patch? The reason why I am asking is that if the old timers did't use a ball starter (almost none found in artifact form). Should'nt the ball expand upon ignition somewhat? I have tried .495 with .010, .490 with both .015 and .018. Very dificult to load even with short starter. Many old rifles were coned at the muzzle to facilitate thumb pressure loading. I am thinking on trying the .490 and .010 patch combo. What do you all think?

I use the .490 and .010 patch and get awesome accuracy (holes touching) and they are plenty tight in my Blue Ridge.

I have not tried and pillow tick @ .018 thickness but have to wonder if it will be too tight for the barrel.

 

[Catof9tails]

My appolgies for straying away from the topic, but my PM to Blackfoot did not go through for some reason.

Question to Blackfoot: The Blueridge rifle you have is it from Cabela's? If so, what rate of twist is the barrel? Please send me a PM if the system is working.

Cat9

 

[Rebel]

Cabelas sells the Blue Ridge and they are a 1=49" twist.

 

[Catof9tails]

Thank you Rebel.

 

[Plains99]

I had an Austin & Halleck flinter for a while and used the .490 ball and .010 patch because of the loading ease. It worked well. I sold the rifle but kept the balls and patchs for plinking with some of my other .50's. I've had good experience with them. Wouldn't go back to larger diameter balls.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I've shot a bunch of .530" balls with 0.010" patch (Ox-Yoke cotton material) and it holds up with Moose Snot as the lube, but is noticaby less accurate. I keep three in a block on my horn for fast reloading. I can seat them in two long pushes in my 44" L.C.Rice barrel.

BTW - he uses a "medium radius" crown that is, I suppose, comparable to a short cone. I can seat .530" balls with 0.021" patch by thumb pressure and do not use a short starter. My ideal patch is 0.018"

 

[Blackfoot]

I use a .490 ball and .010 patch with my blue ridge and have great results.
I get several targets that have a figure 8 holes and then some that get a ragged hole at 50 yards, So give it a try it might work for you too.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

I use Ox-Yoke or Bridges plain strip patches in 0.010" thickness and lube them ala the 'Dwight Schultz' method. My lubes are either the Mama Flinter's moose milk combo of Murphys, NAPA cutting oil, and water or just plain Ballistol and water.

So far I think the barrels prefer the moose milk formula, though I need to play with the Ballistol mix ratio some more.

Both my 45 undahammah and 50 Mowrey rifles like the 0.010" patches and where both barrels are coned, they load fast and easily :hatsoff: , which is a boon during the snowshoe winter biathlon timed events!

I have shot one 50cal patch up to 8 times in a row using 70grs FFFg ... with no blow out. I could have shot it again and again, but I got bored with it.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Now that I am testing overpowder wads, and fillers, in the gun, I will eventually go back and try FFFg powder with the wads or fillers to see if I can't get even better accuracy now. It never ends.

Paul,
I would be very interested in your findings.
I shoot only greenmtnbarrels in my rifles ranging from 36 to 54 cal.
I shoot a 028 thousands or 030 thousands canvas patch I get in bulk at wallmart in all my rifles and all with ffg goex with a 010 thousands under swaged ball from hornaday. ie 50cal is 490, 36 cal is 350 ect.
I don't have to pound the ball down the barrel I swab between shots when competing or bench resting.
I get half to three quarter inch five shot groups at 50 yrds and inch and a half to two inches at 100yrds.
Because I use such a thick patch, they never blow out even when I am shooting 110grns of ffg out of my 54.
Is this odd to be using such a thick patch.
My reasoning for using these patches was based on the fact that Greenmtnbarrels have such deep grooves.
:hatsoff:

 

[Cherokee]

I use a .490 ball and a .018 patch on my 50 cal and it shoots great, but fouling makes it a royal b#tch to load after two shots. IM now thinking of the .015 Patches for target shooting and plenty of lube.
Its fine for hunting when the barrel is clean, it loads with a short starter but its not bad.

On my 45 cal I managed to get .018 patch on the .445 ball and it shot low, there was no second shot due to fowling and the super tight patch. I got the ball 3/4 of the way down the 42" barrel and it wouldnt budge anymore. It took two of us to pull it when I got it home.
It might work with a .440 ball and some better lube.
IM in the process of switching lube. I have nothing but fowling in cold weather and thats when I do my shooting. I forgot to add thats with Goex 3F

 

[paulvallandigham]

Cherokee: Why not simply clean between shots? Considering all the time you have put in to pulling the ball stuck in the barrel, that time saved would more than allow you to run a cleaning patch with a little spit down the barrel, then a dry patch to dry the barrel before dumping the next load of powder. Let the Lube do its job of protecting the patch from burning, and softening the crud, but clean the barrel and you won't have a stuck ball.

 

[Cherokee]

Well last winter when I was shooting pretty regular I did just that and I had all the fouling pushed into the breech end from swabbing between shots. My barrel was a mess. I had to clean it all out with bore shine and get it dry and start again. I just need to get back into the rhythm. I have some new products to try out. :v

 

Well last winter when I was shooting pretty regular I did just that and I had all the fouling pushed into the breech end from swabbing between shots. My barrel was a mess.

Where does the fouling go each time you load? Is it not pushed into the breech? The diference is, it's harded to load, and you get your ball stuck.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I don't follow your line of thinking. Any fouling that is pushed into the breech is reburned and taken down the barrel with the next charge. If you use a saliva dampened cleaning patch, it will grab hold of the crud and pull it out. If you mark your rod, so you know when its going to hit the breechplug, you can stop the rod short of it so the crud is not deposited on the plug face. If the jag is formed correctly, so that the front ring is smaller than the rear two or three, the cleaning patch will pull the crud out of the barrel when the rod is withdrawn. Then use a dry patch to run all the way down to the breechplug, and give the rod a couple of right hand twists as if you are tightening the jag on the rod, to wipe the remaining crud out of the chamber, and off the plug. Then withdraw the rod. If the barrel FEELS dry, you are ready to load the next measure of powder; if it still fees wet, then use a second patch to dry the barrel, and pull any more crud out of the chamber.

I like to pump the cleaning patch on the rod as I go down, as this sets the patch in the grooves of the jag, balloons out a little of the patch fabric on the face of the jag, so it can soak up and grab moisture and crud from the chamber. I stop the rod short of the breechplug, unless my experience that day, with the relative humidity at the time tells me that the barrel is not getting very damp, or gathering so much crud that I risk plugging a vent, or flash channel on the gun. One very humid July day, when I was shooting my percussion shotgun in a mail shooting contest, I did have trouble with the barrel being too wet, and I had a hangfire and a missed bird as the result. I fired off some caps, cleaned the barrel a couple of time, blew down the barrel to clear the flash channel and nipples. and dried the barrel out after the clean. The next round went off without a hitch. However, from that point on. I changed my cleaning and loading procedure to deal with the increased ( like 99%) relative humidity on that day, and took greater pains than I would normally have to do on a late fall day using the same gun to hunt and shoot pheasants.

If there is any lesson to be learned here by the less experienced shooter, it is that everything is important, and you have to pay attention, and be prepared to change your loading procedure to fit the temperature and relative humidity. There is not such thing as SINGLE right way to load and clean any gun. The gun is not a Semi-automatic rifle designed for combat use. It is a slow firing and slow reloading muzzle loading rifle or smoothbore. The hardest thing for new shooters to get into their head is that being in a hurry only makes mistakes. Those of us who take our time are simply enjoying the process, and the success we achieve when we do everything right for that day. We can, of course, become complacent, and smug, and that is when the devil will bite us in the butt, too! The difference between the older guys and younger guys is that we old guys expect to make mistakes, and expect to learn something new almost every time we shoot these old style guns. Its part of the fun. Its also interesting to everyone when someone's gun does not fire, as to what is the cause. Everybody loves to solve a mystery, and solving them is part of the satisfaciton of this form of shooting.

This is my world, and welcome to it.

 

[Cherokee]

Hey guys thanks for the info.
The fouling I have when the barrel is dry is terrible stuff. Its almost like having a rusted barrel. Its so bad when its pushed into the breach it jams the touch hole.
I start having dried crusty spots in the barrel and loading goes from tough to cant load.
I swab the barrel with cleaner and it gets so bad I have run a wire brush down the barrel and swab and patches to shoot more.
When the barrel is wet its not that bad just a swab will clean it up.
When its really cold out I wa susing bore butter only as a lube and from this thread it sound sexactly like what I have experienced. Almost like I have scorched areas in the barrel and others just dry. The scorched areas flake they are so bad.
When its warmer the humidity makes it wet with a little grit to it. A swab will usually make it load after that.
I want to try Lehigh valley lube and crisco.
My flint 45cal rifled 42" barrel is the worse for the fouling.
I have a traditions percussion Ky rifle 50 cal and a CVA percussion Mountain Rifle 50 cal that just seem to dry out more both of these rifles are of the short barrel types.