I know, I will need to work up my own charge for my rifle. I was just wondering what you guys who have a fast twist 45 are using. I started with Pyrodex P (basically 3fff equivalent) at 80 measured grains (64.5 gr. weighed). I shot good but the recoil was very stiff. I am used to hunting with a 10 gauge shotgun and i think the 10 gauge was lighter on recoil than that load was. Anyone willing to share what their powder charge is? I am using 409 grain rcbs, rifle bullets, paper patched. Thanks Idahoron.