My guess would be a poor nipple/cap fit.
What nipples and caps are you using?
What nipples and caps are you using?
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.32 cap and ball
- Thread starter schreck5
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cynthia, I don't know what brand the nipples are, but they are #10's (at least #11's fall right off). The caps are #10 CCI.
Is it possible to have a chain-fire from the front of the chamber if the ball fits tightly? I wouldn't think so, but I've been wrong at least once before in my life.
Is it possible to have a chain-fire from the front of the chamber if the ball fits tightly? I wouldn't think so, but I've been wrong at least once before in my life.
rodwha
58 Cal.
Highly unlikely if the balls shaved a ring when seated, but if they were out of round it could be possible.
I'm curious about the fit using .319" balls. I've heard that .315" balls will drop right in, and the balls used that did fit well and shave a ring were .323" balls.
If it was a fit without a shaved ring it could be that the balls had the ability to move forward, and that there may have been room to allow some flame past it.
But the chain fires usually seem to happen due to poor cap fit. Were they a tight fit? Could you pull them off by hand? I keep a small pair of needle nose pliers in my shooting box if I need to remove nipples as I usually can't pull them off with my fingers.
I'm curious about the fit using .319" balls. I've heard that .315" balls will drop right in, and the balls used that did fit well and shave a ring were .323" balls.
If it was a fit without a shaved ring it could be that the balls had the ability to move forward, and that there may have been room to allow some flame past it.
But the chain fires usually seem to happen due to poor cap fit. Were they a tight fit? Could you pull them off by hand? I keep a small pair of needle nose pliers in my shooting box if I need to remove nipples as I usually can't pull them off with my fingers.
Get some Remington #10's for your pistol. They are made so they will pretty much fit any #10 or 11 nipple. (And I suspect they will fit an old #12 nipple.)
I would also suggest a brand new set of after market nipples. Put the ones that came with the revolver in the shooting kit for emergency replacements.
I prefer to put #11's on my pistols so that my rifles and pistols all are on the same page when it comes to caps.
I would also suggest a brand new set of after market nipples. Put the ones that came with the revolver in the shooting kit for emergency replacements.
I prefer to put #11's on my pistols so that my rifles and pistols all are on the same page when it comes to caps.
Did you replace the nipples(I read your post as having done so)? It is possible the nipples are too long and the force of firing is slamming the cylinder back against the recoil shield/frame hard enough to fire a cap on an adjacent chamber.
15 grains is a stout load for these little guns.
15 grains is a stout load for these little guns.
Hawkeye, cynthia, yes I tried some new #11 nipples and yes they were too long so I put the old ones back on.
Also, the chambers at the front of the cylinder seem to have a very slight chamfer or taper to them. .319 balls were not being shaved. No little slivvers. I will try .323 balls, where can I buy them?
And I will try the Rem. caps if I can ever find any.
And by the way, you guys are being very patient with me, thanks. Bruce
Also, the chambers at the front of the cylinder seem to have a very slight chamfer or taper to them. .319 balls were not being shaved. No little slivvers. I will try .323 balls, where can I buy them?
And I will try the Rem. caps if I can ever find any.
And by the way, you guys are being very patient with me, thanks. Bruce
rodwha
58 Cal.
Mouldknocker (spl?) on this forum or Masscaster on castboolits.
His thread page is down as he is updating stuff. I'm guessing (.457" RB's cost me $7/100) that .323" RB's are likely $6-7/100 + shipping (~$5 for up to several hundred).
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?87136-Forefather-s-Casting-Shop
If the mouths of your chambers are chamfered I'm not sure anything useable would leave a ring.
Did you notice any of the balls sliding out of the chambers while firing? I've had my Old Army lock up due to projectiles unseating. I'm not sure if a .31 has enough recoil to do this or not...
The other thing that would lock it up would be cap fragments getting caught up in the action.
His thread page is down as he is updating stuff. I'm guessing (.457" RB's cost me $7/100) that .323" RB's are likely $6-7/100 + shipping (~$5 for up to several hundred).
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?87136-Forefather-s-Casting-Shop
If the mouths of your chambers are chamfered I'm not sure anything useable would leave a ring.
Did you notice any of the balls sliding out of the chambers while firing? I've had my Old Army lock up due to projectiles unseating. I'm not sure if a .31 has enough recoil to do this or not...
The other thing that would lock it up would be cap fragments getting caught up in the action.
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OK, got .323 balls from ToTW. They mic at .318 :hmm: Used Malt-O-Meal on top of 10 grs. Goex, #10 Rem caps. Still crossfireing! Fired caps look like shrappnel! Found fired ball in good shape, found cross-fired ball minus 2 big chunks!! Scary for sure.
Am afraid to shoot it any more! Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Am afraid to shoot it any more! Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Are your rounds shaving lead when you seat them?
After you seat your caps blow out or brush out the nipple area to clean out any micro dust of black powder.
After you seat your caps blow out or brush out the nipple area to clean out any micro dust of black powder.
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hotoSmile:Cynthia, the chambers are definately chamfered. Don't know why, but they are. So, no, no shavings.
I would post pics but this old 'puter just won't do it. Repairman said many $$$ to fix, so just getting by for now. ( I can buy lots of lead for what the repair would cast) :grin:
I would post pics but this old 'puter just won't do it. Repairman said many $$$ to fix, so just getting by for now. ( I can buy lots of lead for what the repair would cast) :grin:
huh,
I got nuthin'.
I got nuthin'.
I have been shooting c&b revolvers for over 50 years and have never seen chamfered cylinders. By using a filler you have pretty much eliminated a chain fire from the front. The only other thing to do is put lube (Crisco)in front of the seated balls. It seems the chain fire is originating with the nipple/cap fit.
There is one other possibility which I have read about long ago and that is chambers with micro cracks, allowing fire from one to jump to the adjacent chamber. These cracks can develop at the rear of the chamber when excessive loads are used regularly, although I've never seen them. If you have a good automotive machine shop close you might have them magnaflux the cylinder.
There is one other possibility which I have read about long ago and that is chambers with micro cracks, allowing fire from one to jump to the adjacent chamber. These cracks can develop at the rear of the chamber when excessive loads are used regularly, although I've never seen them. If you have a good automotive machine shop close you might have them magnaflux the cylinder.
Can you measure the diameter of the chambers down below the chamfer?
It will be interesting to know how large they are.
In your first post you mentioned the gun was used so it's possible whoever owned it before you got it reamed the chambers out to a larger size.
IMO, a true chamfer is a small (usually) 45 degree cut that just removes the sharp edge where the hole meets the face of the material.
Such a chamfer should not be so large that the ball won't seat tightly inside the chamber.
As for the caps looking like shrapnel after they've been fired that is normal.
They often blow completely off of the nipple when they fire.
That's the reason it is so important to make sure the other caps on the unfired chambers are still in place on their respective nipples when the gun is fired.
It will be interesting to know how large they are.
In your first post you mentioned the gun was used so it's possible whoever owned it before you got it reamed the chambers out to a larger size.
IMO, a true chamfer is a small (usually) 45 degree cut that just removes the sharp edge where the hole meets the face of the material.
Such a chamfer should not be so large that the ball won't seat tightly inside the chamber.
As for the caps looking like shrapnel after they've been fired that is normal.
They often blow completely off of the nipple when they fire.
That's the reason it is so important to make sure the other caps on the unfired chambers are still in place on their respective nipples when the gun is fired.
rodwha
58 Cal.
I've read how someone was using some sort of cap keeper that's supposed to make them water tight, but also keeps the cap on once fired. Maybe you can buy some and give those a try.
When you cap the nipples can you raise the barrel and give a few shakes without the caps falling off? It would seem that you don't have a good cap fit.
The COW certainly keeps a crossfire from happening from the front. But maybe there's something to micro cracks, though it sounds strange.
When you cap the nipples can you raise the barrel and give a few shakes without the caps falling off? It would seem that you don't have a good cap fit.
The COW certainly keeps a crossfire from happening from the front. But maybe there's something to micro cracks, though it sounds strange.
I am baffled.
A tight fitting ball and snug caps should not chain fire. Especially if there is some form of buffer between the ball and the powder.
A tight fitting ball and snug caps should not chain fire. Especially if there is some form of buffer between the ball and the powder.
bpd, just double checked and there is a definate taper to the mouth(?) of each chamber.
balls and caps do not move when shot. Everything is good and snug.
I will see if a friend of mine can magnaflux the cylinder. He is an expert tool and die machinist.
Since the frame is brass, would it be posslible that it has been beaten to death from much use/abuse? How can I tell?
I am a greenhorn to these cap and balls. Just my luck that I'd pick up a real trouble-maker.
balls and caps do not move when shot. Everything is good and snug.
I will see if a friend of mine can magnaflux the cylinder. He is an expert tool and die machinist.
Since the frame is brass, would it be posslible that it has been beaten to death from much use/abuse? How can I tell?
I am a greenhorn to these cap and balls. Just my luck that I'd pick up a real trouble-maker.
Take a look at this link to Dixie Gunworks New Model Remington Pocket pistol.
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=898
Is this the gun we are speaking of?
I suppose it's possible for the frame to get stretched or battered but I'm not sure how someone would go about doing that.
The small powder charge, even if maxed out shouldn't damage the frame.
Apparently the Remington company agreed with this because this is the only revolver model that Remington actually offered with a brass frame back in the 1860's.
With the larger brass framed Remingtons clones made in Italy the usual damage from hot powder loads is at the rear of the cylinder.
When the gun if fired the cylinder recoils hard against the brass frame at the rear and repeated firings can cause the brass in that area to deform.
If this happens the cylinder will move forward and aft more than it is supposed to.
I suppose if it got bad enough when the gun fired its cylinder would move back and slam into the frame at the back.
The impact of that happening could conceivably jar some unfired caps loose from the nipples.
If a loaded chamber doesn't have a cap on its nipple it can chain fire.
By the way, if I push the cylinder back away from the barrel on my Remington Pocket pistol the gap between the front of the cylinder and the rear of the barrel is about .015 (1/64) of an inch.
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=898
Is this the gun we are speaking of?
I suppose it's possible for the frame to get stretched or battered but I'm not sure how someone would go about doing that.
The small powder charge, even if maxed out shouldn't damage the frame.
Apparently the Remington company agreed with this because this is the only revolver model that Remington actually offered with a brass frame back in the 1860's.
With the larger brass framed Remingtons clones made in Italy the usual damage from hot powder loads is at the rear of the cylinder.
When the gun if fired the cylinder recoils hard against the brass frame at the rear and repeated firings can cause the brass in that area to deform.
If this happens the cylinder will move forward and aft more than it is supposed to.
I suppose if it got bad enough when the gun fired its cylinder would move back and slam into the frame at the back.
The impact of that happening could conceivably jar some unfired caps loose from the nipples.
If a loaded chamber doesn't have a cap on its nipple it can chain fire.
By the way, if I push the cylinder back away from the barrel on my Remington Pocket pistol the gap between the front of the cylinder and the rear of the barrel is about .015 (1/64) of an inch.
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Zoney, the gun you posted is not the same as mine. Mine has no front strap and has a trigger guard with a sguare back.
When the cylinder is pushed all the way back, the gap is very wide, about .022"
When the gun if fired the cylinder recoils hard against the brass frame at the rear and repeated firings can cause the brass in that area to deform.
I am afraid this is what has happened.
When the cylinder is pushed all the way back, the gap is very wide, about .022"
When the gun if fired the cylinder recoils hard against the brass frame at the rear and repeated firings can cause the brass in that area to deform.
I am afraid this is what has happened.
