2 Patched Round Balls

Discussion in 'General Muzzleloading' started by 7shortmag, Jan 11, 2017.

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  1. Jan 11, 2017 #1

    7shortmag

    7shortmag

    7shortmag

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    I have used 2 patched round balls in my muzzleloaders many times, in both my .50 cal. and in also in my .54 cal..
    Killed many a deer with this combo.

    Does anyone else use it?
     
  2. Jan 11, 2017 #2

    Col. Batguano

    Col. Batguano

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    Assuming this is deliberate, and you've practiced it at the range, what kind of a group do you get when you do it?
     
  3. Jan 11, 2017 #3

    curator

    curator

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    I have "played" with double ball loads in several of my muzzle loading rifles. One of the old Lyman "Black Powder" books had some information on the practice. Old-timers claimed this was "loading for bear." I found that both balls would usually hit within a few inches of each other at 50 yards. Here in Florida ANY gun firing two or more projectiles must be at least 20 gauge, so double .50 caliber ball load would be illegal. You might check with your Wildlife Commission before using it for hunting.
     
  4. Jan 11, 2017 #4

    wattlebuster

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    I have read threads about doing it but I have to wonder how hard it is on a rifle with the added pressure.
     
  5. Jan 11, 2017 #5

    nhmoose

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    Nope my .54 single ball works just fine. Power is not the problem IMHO but bullet placement.
     
  6. Jan 12, 2017 #6

    Col. Batguano

    Col. Batguano

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    That would be my concern too. The ball right above the powder charge is cupped by the patch, and receives pretty even pressure from the expanding gasses to accelerate. The top ball gains it's acceleration force at one point from the top of the bottom ball, so the pressure is concentrated. Likewise the bottom ball is resisted at the top from the top ball. The net effect is that I would think that both balls would want to be obdurated more from their trip down range, and be of different shapes. This would be sort of the "Maxi-Ball effect". The rings obdurate outward to engage the rifling due to the compression from acceleration by the burning charge behind it. Result; good engagement with rifling, and good accuracy. Many folks report superior accuracy with maxi balls over that of minnie balls.

    I'd be curious to see what kind of shapes they're in. Has anyone done the water recovery test to look at them? Anyone here got a pool in their back yard they can do it for us?

    While I'm sure the increase in frontal area would have an increase in lethality, the decrease in velocity would also have a tendency to cancel out the effect. I'm guessing that's part of the reason most states aren't all that keen on using buckshot for deer hunting (as well as the limited range and accuracy obtainable for each pellet).
     
  7. Jan 12, 2017 #7

    Spikebuck

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    Roundball's double ball load tests and then doe kill from 2013. Unfortunately the pictures aren't there anymore, but as usual, Roundball did a good job at describing all he did and the results. Nothing about pressures. He did say this:
    http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...712/post/1313845/hl/double+ball/fromsearch/1/
    http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...3923/post/1328396/hl/double+ball/fromsearch/1/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2018
  8. Jan 12, 2017 #8

    Stumpkiller

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    No. Not legal in NY.

    And I figure one good shot with a single is sufficient.

    Two in a bad spot may not help, and if one is good and the other bad the good only has 1/2 the energy it would have had if it left the barrel alone.

    Two seems like you don't have confidence in yourself or your load - and that is a bad place to start from. I have confidence in one.

    But if it's legal and works for you. Go for it.

    :hatsoff:
     
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  9. Jan 12, 2017 #9

    Tinker2

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    I have loaded my cap and ball revolvers with two balls in one chamber.




    .
     
  10. Jan 12, 2017 #10

    Trot

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    Not legal in PA flintlock season either.
     
  11. Jan 12, 2017 #11

    7shortmag

    7shortmag

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    For the record, I did this because I heard of others doing it and I wanted to try it out.
    I have killed several deer with it and it works well.
    When shooting this at paper the balls always print one directly above the other about 1 1/2" at 50 yards.

    One thing that absolutely must be done is that the second ball MUST touching top of the first with no space between the two balls.
     
  12. Jan 12, 2017 #12

    nkbj

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    Pretty hard to say bad things about a double-tap.
     
  13. Jan 12, 2017 #13

    GANGGREEN

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    It's illegal in PA. Just sayin'.....


     
  14. Jan 12, 2017 #14

    rafterob

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    Works on Zombies
     
  15. Jan 12, 2017 #15

    Ames

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    I enjoy your common sense approach to these things, Stumpkiller. Single ball, single shot, accurate kill. :v
     
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  16. Jan 14, 2017 #16

    Loyalist Dave

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    Thompson Center in their early manuals for the Hawken had loads for double ball in .45 caliber for deer. After a while they discovered that it wasn't necessary, and it's poaching in many states to launch two projectiles in a single shot at deer during "primitive" or "muzzleloader season", and it's also considered buckshot in most states (even if fired from a rifled barrel) and some states also prohibit buckshot on deer, so they discontinued the data. Plus the problems if the second ball isn't properly seated on the first. :shocked2:

    Of course where buckshot is legal one could use it during modern gun season, AND of course one could use it on coyote and groundhog.

    My first question would be, Do you need it?
    The idea was called "loaded for bear" because a lot more damage was needed on bear, and the term (iirc) stems from the post AWI era where Eastern rifles were trending in caliber to below the .50 caliber mark. Doubtful one needs it in a .50 and highly doubtful one would need it in a .54.

    Now that's assuming you have a proper powder load behind the ball too. In an emergency survival situation, where one had say 1/2 the normal powder, perhaps 40 grains in a .54, it might be a good idea to ensure your deer was down as you had one and only one shot, and your shot was under 50 yards. I would hope that the extra 225 grains of lead wouldn't drop your MV so low that neither ball took good effect?

    Basically it's a field expedient solution to increasing impact on large, dangerous game, from the days when all there was, was patched round ball. IF one was that worried about their load these days, one might try any one or several of the conical bullet designs on the market.

    LD
     
  17. Mar 3, 2019 #17

    Juice Jaws

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    All it does is take a smooth shooting arm into a hard kicking one. For hunting, most states it is unlawful.
     
  18. Mar 3, 2019 #18

    Black Hand

    Black Hand

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    No - one ball works just fine and does the job each time I've done my part.
     
  19. Mar 17, 2019 at 1:03 PM #19

    Feist Hunter

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    I have never heard of this. Sounds like a recipe for trouble to me if not loaded correctly or done in a compromised barrel.
     
  20. Mar 17, 2019 at 1:24 PM #20

    Griz44Mag

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    An accurately placed single ball at normal MZL velocities with good accuracy is terminal on anything in North America from 45 cal to 62 cal or beyond.
     

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