Rifle vs. Smoothbore

[shaman]

In 40-some years of muzzleloading, I have only acquired 3 Muzzleloading arms:

a 54 cal TC Hawken
a 75 cal Pedersoli Brown Bess
a 50 cal LHR inline

I'm thinking about my next one. I want it to be a flinter. If all goes well, I'll use it for deer hunting.

How much additional useable range should I expect getting a rifled barrel versus a smoothbore? My Hawken is rifled. With patched roundball, I can keep it on a pie plate at 50 yards. The Brown Bess does the same at 40 yards, but I'm still on the front side of the learning curve with it. With the Inline, I'm doing 4-inch groups at 100 yards.

Let's say I have a choice between 54 cal smooth and a 54 cal rifled. Take the Kibler Woodsrunner as an example; it's available in both. What's your guess on the difference in usuable range on deer sized game?

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

Well 100 yards is easily doable with either if you do your part. Obviously the rifle in theory would be more accurate but 50 yards I wouldn't bet against either gun with the same shooter. At 100 yards i'll bet on the rifle 100% of the time. But i thought the woodsrunner was only available in rifled. I just looked at website it says 45, 50, or 54 cal. If you look at colonial rifle it says smooth or rifled in options.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Most rifles will consistently group smaller than a pie plate at 100 yards without a great deal of work. A good smooth bore can but it won’t be as easy.

 

[centershot]

First, consider WHERE you hunt. I live in western NY, shots at game, large or small, are close. State-wide, the average shot at a deer is 30-35 yards. Small game likewise. Around here a smoothbore is all anyone needs. Don't get me wrong, it's nice to have a rifle but "need" one - no. A big plus for the smoothbore is that you're able to hunt all game with the one gun!

 

[TreeMan]

Why not just use the brown Bess? It’s a flintlock and a smoothbore. I use mine for deer and small game using shot.

 

[Codger Craig Wilcox]

As I was a good Boy Scout, I like to always Be Prepared.
A recent acquisition was a double barreled firearm, made in France c. 1850.
The left barrel is about 20 gauge, or 2o-bore if you are a Brit.
The right barrel is about .36 caliber, rifled.
Amazingly simple response for range.
Unfortunately, the right (rifled) lock will not remain in the full cock position. Sear needs stoning, and it is out for repair.
Beautiful little double, good companion to my c. 1850 British 15-bore double. Both exquisitely built and engraved. Pics whenever I get my cameras working.

 

[rich pierce]

A rifle always has the advantage with round ball. Especially if your smoothbore has no rear sight. They rifled barrels for a reason. Accuracy. Instead of testing a rifle versus smoothbore off the bench, test both at 50 yards in a woods walk situation where you have to fire within 5 seconds, to simulate hunting. 3 shots each at a regular piece of paper with a 3” black square in the middle.

When hunting I’m not interested in what guns will do off the bench or when time doesn’t matter.

 

[TDM]

You should expect the rifle to double your effective range of the smoothbore. That is if you still good eyes and can shoot at 100 yards without difficulty.

 

[TDM]

And I agree with @rich pierce, was typing when he posted.

 

[Ben Meyer]

I'd want a Flintlock rifle before getting a Flintlock smoothbore. That said, I have the rifle, really want the smoothbore. It'll be my next BP gun probably a Fusil de Chaisse in .62cal/20 GA, but maybe a mire traditional fowler.

 

[Notchy Bob]

I think the only reason to get the smoothbore would be if you want to load it with shot. If it’s just for shooting ball, a rifle would unquestionably be a better choice.

Notchy Bob

 

[springfield art]

Smoothie in general, you want to be closer to the deer than with a rifle, simply. Good clean ethical kills are preferred! I like the idea of a 'smooth rifle', it was kind of a do-all back in the old days. They didn't have game wardens around every tree, either! Or, game tags or hunting licenses, either! (I'm not a hunter!)

 

[Sandro_Ventania]

First, consider WHERE you hunt. I live in western NY, shots at game, large or small, are close. State-wide, the average shot at a deer is 30-35 yards. Small game likewise. Around here a smoothbore is all anyone needs. Don't get me wrong, it's nice to have a rifle but "need" one - no. A big plus for the smoothbore is that you're able to hunt all game with the one gun!

I'm curious...why can I hunt any animal with a smoothbore, but can't do the same with a rifle?

 

[R Ellis]

I'm curious...why can I hunt any animal with a smoothbore, but can't do the same with a rifle?

For me it would be impossible to hit a bird on the wing and it is not legal to turkey hunt with a rifle here and a running rabbit is hard to hit with a rifle that is just a few examples for me I am sure others have different ideas

 

[Rob M.]

Ah! You got your rifles covered ....get ya a 5.5 -6 pd. N.W. trade gun in 20 ga. ! Youll love it . Good for squirrel to buffalo and anything in between ! LOL ....they are a lot of fun and great for gettin game .... You can get em with a small or large trigger guard, both style authentic ... A man that has a rifle AND a smoothbore , he has every game animal covered ! Good to go !

 

[Notchy Bob]

I think Thompson/Center developed their .56 caliber Renegade to be compliant with regulations in one of the New England states, which apparently prohibited rifles. I don’t know if any such laws still exist… Maybe some of our forum members who live up that way can comment. The rifle was essentially a bone-stock Renegade except for having a .56 caliber smooth bore. It had the same adjustable sights and double-set triggers as the standard rifled version. I’ve often thought it would have made more sense for them to have made it in .55 caliber, which would have been a true 28 gauge. Standard 28 gauge wads would fit, and balls in a variety of standard sizes that would work (.530”, .535”, .540”…) were readily available. As it was, T/C recommended a .550” ball. Both balls and moulds in that size were pretty scarce.

However, the Renegade SB (smoothbore) was an interesting idea, developed to meet a specific need.

Notchy Bob

 

[shaman]

Why not just use the brown Bess? It’s a flintlock and a smoothbore. I use mine for deer and small game using shot.

The Bess scratched a long-standing itch. I'm still determined to take a turkey, a deer, and a squirrel with it all in one year. I'll have it out for Spring Gobbler this year.

Having said that, I'm already beginning to see the limitations of the 'Bess. It is an absolute brute of a piece.

As I was a good Boy Scout, I like to always Be Prepared.
A recent acquisition was a double barreled firearm, made in France c. 1850.
The left barrel is about 20 gauge, or 2o-bore if you are a Brit.
The right barrel is about .36 caliber, rifled.
Amazingly simple response for range.
Unfortunately, the right (rifled) lock will not remain in the full cock position. Sear needs stoning, and it is out for repair.
Beautiful little double, good companion to my c. 1850 British 15-bore double. Both exquisitely built and engraved. Pics whenever I get my cameras working.

That's another itch. I'm a big fan of Frederick Gerstaker.
https://www.amazon.com/Wild-Sports-Rambling-Classics-American/dp/081173174X

He described a piece he carried on his first ramblings in America that was a double-barrelled affair with one barrel smooth and the other rifled. He hunted everything with it. I've thought that might be worth pursuing. I'm currently exchanging emails with the head of the Gerstaker Museum in Braunschweig to get any details they have. I've already heard that the original piece no longer exists. Drat.

 

[French Colonial]

The Bess scratched a long-standing itch. I'm still determined to take a turkey, a deer, and a squirrel with it all in one year. I'll have it out for Spring Gobbler this year.

Having said that, I'm already beginning to see the limitations of the 'Bess. It is an absolute brute of a piece.



That's another itch. I'm a big fan of Frederick Gerstaker.
https://www.amazon.com/Wild-Sports-Rambling-Classics-American/dp/081173174X

He described a piece he carried on his first ramblings in America that was a double-barrelled affair with one barrel smooth and the other rifled. He hunted everything with it. I've thought that might be worth pursuing. I'm currently exchanging emails with the head of the Gerstaker Museum in Braunschweig to get any details they have. I've already heard that the original piece no longer exists. Drat.

On page 166 he refers to it as a double barreled rifle, I find no reference to one barrel being smooth bored although he does sometimes loads with buck and ball.

Please let me know where he refers to it as one barrel smooth bored.

For others reading this besides Shaman, Frederick also documents his taking of birds with his rifle while they are sitting, ducks on the water etc. Our modern notion of only shooting birds on the fly never seemed to enter his mind.

 

[David Veale]

In 40-some years of muzzleloading, I have only acquired 3 Muzzleloading arms:

a 54 cal TC Hawken
a 75 cal Pedersoli Brown Bess
a 50 cal LHR inline

I'm thinking about my next one. I want it to be a flinter. If all goes well, I'll use it for deer hunting.

How much additional useable range should I expect getting a rifled barrel versus a smoothbore? My Hawken is rifled. With patched roundball, I can keep it on a pie plate at 50 yards. The Brown Bess does the same at 40 yards, but I'm still on the front side of the learning curve with it. With the Inline, I'm doing 4-inch groups at 100 yards.

Let's say I have a choice between 54 cal smooth and a 54 cal rifled. Take the Kibler Woodsrunner as an example; it's available in both. What's your guess on the difference in usuable range on deer sized game?

I've got a .45 (rifled) and a .62 smoothie. The smoothie produces fairly good groups with roundball at my 75 yard range (probably 5", whereas the rifle is 2-3"). The biggest shortcoming on the smoothbore capable of shooting roundball is the lack of a choke, which makes shooting shot for small game a decidedly difficult thing -- it's really only good to 25 yards in my experience. I've seen jug choked guns do much better... but I hear that it can really mess with roundball accuracy.

 

[wiscoaster]

With my Kibler SMR .45, benchrested, irons, I can beat your inline at 100 yds, and I'm no marksman by any stretch. I think that's what you ought to consider if you want a flinter for deer hunting, though I'm not a hunter, so I don't know if maybe you want a heavier caliber for that size game.