1st. flintlock, Siler lock removal.

Discussion in 'Flintlock Rifles' started by mushka, Mar 15, 2019 at 9:23 PM.

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  1. Mar 15, 2019 at 9:23 PM #1

    mushka

    mushka

    mushka

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    I attempted to take the lock from the rifle. Took out the left side screw that I think holds the lock to the stock, also a long screw from a band on the wrist of the stock, top. Unable to get the lock to budge.

    Is there a secret to getting those things off the rifle. It's probably never been removed. Did not want to mar the stock finish or the metal taking it off. Wanted to check the lock for cleaning and lubing.

    Any help appreciated.
     
  2. Mar 15, 2019 at 9:34 PM #2

    Rifleman1776

    Rifleman1776

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    No secret, standard practice to avoid damaging your rifle. Just loosen the screw holding the lock plate and back out as far as it will go but still engage the threads in the plate. Then gently tap the screw head to push the lock plate out. If you wiggle the lock by grabbing the hammer you will chew up the edges of the inlet.
     
  3. Mar 15, 2019 at 9:43 PM #3

    EC121

    EC121

    EC121

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    You probably should also put the tang screw back in before you break the wrist. Are there one or two screws in the sideplate? If it is there, the front one also holds the lock in. I usually back the screws out a couple of turns and give them a tap. If the lock moves, I back them the rest of the way out and tap some more. It could be the finish sticking the lock in or maybe the wood shrunk a little. A properly inlet lock shouldn't be a press fit in the mortise. That is asking for a crack to start.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019 at 9:49 PM
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  4. Mar 15, 2019 at 10:01 PM #4

    Eric Krewson

    Eric Krewson

    Eric Krewson

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    Yep the one in the wrist doesn't hold the lock in just the trigger plate.

    You may have one or two lock bolts holding the lock in place. remove these bolts and your lock should fall out easily. Remember which one goes in the front or back because they might be different lengths.

    The side plate with two bolts will look like this;

    fowler selfies 007.JPG

    The plate with one bolt holding the lock in place will look like this;

    squirrel 40.JPG
     
  5. Mar 15, 2019 at 10:07 PM #5

    mushka

    mushka

    mushka

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    Thank you for your answers. There is no sideplate, just a flat metal device like the last picture has. I guess metal piece going down the wrist from the rear of the barrel doesn't do much for holding the loc
    I'll try the tap the screwhead lightly and we'll see what happens. The lock sure seems to be tight though.
     
  6. Mar 15, 2019 at 10:21 PM #6

    Eric Krewson

    Eric Krewson

    Eric Krewson

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    Screwing the bolt back in partially and tapping on it should knock the lock out. The lock inlet may have a build up of finish around it that is making the lock stick.

    What kind of gun is it? If it is a newer TC it probably has hot melt glue around the lock inlet holding the lock in. They got sloppy on their quality control later on and resorted to hot melt instead of craftsmanship. If it is a TC and you remove the lock the hot melt will probably come out with the lock.

    If it is not a TC with hot melt, when you put the lock back in only tighten the bolt to the slightly snug position, don't torque it down.

    This would be a TC lock bolt;

    TC lock panel shape.JPG
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019 at 10:30 PM
  7. Mar 15, 2019 at 10:41 PM #7

    mushka

    mushka

    mushka

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    I did what was suggested and partially unscrewed the left side screw, and lightly tapped it with a small brass hammer and punch. That popped it loose, unscrewed it a little more and tapped it a couple of times and it came out.
    Cleaned some residue and rust from the lock, lightly oiled the lock and put it back on the rifle. Waalah, works perfectly. I don't know how old the rifle is, someone suggested it was made during the 70's or 80's due to the shape of the lock and the barrel with the 66" twist. I think the lock has been on it a long time without removal, if ever, due to the residues inside.
    Now I know a little more about this gun, interesting weapon.

    Thanks for the help.
     
  8. Mar 15, 2019 at 10:55 PM #8

    Eric Krewson

    Eric Krewson

    Eric Krewson

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    Got any pictures? There are guys here that can identify most contemporary guns by the lock and the shape of the stock.

    I went had just gone outside to take the picture of my tennessee rifle lock one bolt. It was so pretty in the setting sun I grabbed my Kibler SMR and took some pictures of it as well, starting with a picture of the walnut curl.

    kibler walnut curl.JPG

    Next will be pulling the barrel to see if there is any writing on the underside.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019 at 11:01 PM
  9. Mar 15, 2019 at 11:56 PM #9

    Sidney Smith

    Sidney Smith

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    The screw on top behind the barrel is the tang screw. this holds the rear of the barrel in place, and has nothing whatsoever to do with holding the lock in. The side screw/screws are what hold the lock in place. Now some guns, especially modern reproductions of yesteryear guns will have a fake forward lock screw. My TVM Lancaster rifle has one. Its merely a short screw about 3/8 inch long. Its only function is to simulate a forward lock screw. The rear, uppermost screw is what actually holds the lock in place on my rifle.
     
  10. Mar 16, 2019 at 4:15 AM #10

    Huntschool

    Huntschool

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    If I remember from your other thread about flash in the pan and the pics you posted..... You have a Hawken style rifle. That's a single lock bolt so you should be able to remove the lock as mentioned above and that seems to have worked. Its always a good idea to post a pic or two on here when asking a question so folks know what gun you are working with.
     
  11. Mar 16, 2019 at 2:23 PM #11

    mushka

    mushka

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    Next time I post on this rifle about removing something I'll post pics also. When I really get courageous I'm going to get the barrel off the stock and see if there are any stampings to give some identity to the piece. I think it has two screws holding the rear of the barrel down and three wedges along the stock that are very tight. Tried to get a wedge out and when I tapped it, nothing at all happened. My big problem with removal of anything is marring the gorgeous finish of the stock. The furniture on this rifle is iron not brass. trigger guard, butt plate and nose cap all iron.
    I'm going to try and not ignore all my other mz rifles which are cap guns on account of this one. But I sure do like it a lot.
     
  12. Mar 16, 2019 at 3:40 PM #12

    EC121

    EC121

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    You may have a hooked breech and don't need to remove the tang screws. If so, removing the wedges and loosening the lock bolt should be enough to remove the barrel. If it has a hooked breech, there will be a joint between the tang and the breech. The wedges might be tightly fitted or the wood has shrunk making t hem tight. You can buy or make a wedge punch that won't hurt the finish. It will have a groove that fits the end of the wedge to prevent slipping. Sometimes, using your hand, you can squeeze the barrel and stock right at the wedge, and you will get enough slack to remove the wedge. If the nose of the wedge is sticking out just tap it lightly with a screwdriver handle. If you are marring the finish, you aren't using the correct tools
    Anyway that wear on the finish is what gives a rifle it personality. Honest wear won't hurt the looks. Vise marks and hammer marks are not considered honest wear. ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 3:53 PM
  13. Mar 16, 2019 at 3:51 PM #13

    Huntschool

    Huntschool

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    Sent you a PM/conversation note.
     

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