Think about it . . . which barrel ( of roughly the same size) has the bigger hole in it?
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1860 Colt vs. 1858 Remington
- Thread starter wiscoaster
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Think about it . . . which barrel ( of roughly the same size) has the bigger hole in it?
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If you take two pistols with the same barrel length and outside barrel diameter, the one with the smaller bore (hole) is going to be heavier as it has more metal in the barrel than the one with the bigger bore (less metal).
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I have owned both and I prefer the New model army. I think the frame design is stronger and I like the back sights.
Plus I don't like the design of the wedge that has to be removed for the colt. They both work and are sexy in their own way.
Like everyone else has suggested... The only way to settle this debate is to get them both
Plus I don't like the design of the wedge that has to be removed for the colt. They both work and are sexy in their own way.
Like everyone else has suggested... The only way to settle this debate is to get them both
Tyler L
40 Cal
My 1860's box was torn the same way. Their boxes are just a bit too small for 8" barrel guns.
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That is a good looking revolver, and just eyeballing it, it appears that your cylinder gap and lug-to-frame fit are right on, with the wedge being seated all the way in as it should be. Your Uberti seems to have an arbor of the right length.
Is it something you can tell by looking ? I say YES!!
But you can't pull the cyl back with your eyes and you can't push the wedge in the rest of the way with them either. How can you tell by looking?
EASY !!! It's maker is Uberti!! The arbor is short!!
Mike
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Nice looking gun! It will most likely shoot high and left but that can be adjusted for if so. The main thing is if it keeps them all together shot from over a sand bag !
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A photo of the cat would be just fine with me. Obviously.
I forgot I need to go shopping for some .44 cal balls first, plus clean off the manufacturing oil before shooting, so I'll probably at least go so far as a field strip today before shooting, and will be able to check all that, but it puts off first range day. Thanks for the comments.Is it something you can tell by looking ? I say YES!!
But you can't pull the cyl back with your eyes and you can't push the wedge in the rest of the way with them either. How can you tell by looking?
EASY !!! It's maker is Uberti!! The arbor is short!!
Mike
One thing I can't find an answer for yet is load procedure. There seem to be so many load videos, all different. So my question basically is: if I use the lubed wads (ie powder + wad + ball) do I still have to cover the ball with grease?
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If you use a wad, you don’t need grease. Grease may help keep fouling soft.
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No. The lubed wad is plenty and should help keep the bore clean. I find that grease just gets all over everything. Do disassemble the barrel and grease (not oil) the arbor. When you replace the wedge don't drive it in any further than necessary. If the cylinder won't rotate because it's rubbing on the barrel, the wedge is too tight. My old Uberti Walker was really sensitive to that. I use an old (40 yr.) tube of "Phil's" waterproof bicycle grease for the cylinder and the nipple threads after cleaning the gun.
Which is proof of a short arbor.
The wedge is not an endshake adjustment device, the arbor IS the endshake setting device!
Mike
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I've had good accuracy lubing over ball for many decades but hated the mess and the ever changing lube volume being consumed shot to shot as each discharge changes the amount of over ball grease left on the following chambers. I now like to make my own 1/8 inch felt wads soaked in melted Bees wax loaded under the ball that seems to give just as good accuracy with a lot less mess and in this way I am sure of more consistent lube volume shot to shot.
I say "seems to be as accurate" as I have not actually given this a head to head test with over ball lubing only target shooting each of them.
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Yeah Mike has it right about consistent wedge depth being set easily and uniformly with a properly end fit arbor. A feeler gauge is what I have generally used in short arbor guns to set wedge depth initially. ONce it is set and I know how far the key should go in it is easily repeated each time by feel but end fitting is so easily done it makes sense to adjust them in this way.
Never have liked drilling and tapping the end of the arbor for an adjustment screw as it removes material in an important area of barrel containment but shimming the end using a bit of red loc-tite to keep it there works just as well without removing any steel from the arbor end.
First range day:
New Uberti Colt 1860 Army.
First, six shots on the left-hand target at about seven yards. 25 grains FFFg Scheutzen with .454 Hornady balls on top of pre-lubed wads. I think the Uberti prefers the .457 balls, as I mostly got not quite a complete ring of lead shaved when I rammed. However, it shot those balls just fine anyway. I couldn't find any .44 cal .457 balls locally.
I didn't have any caps "sucked" by the hammer as I found mostly the caps just flew off the nipples when ignited. Though I did have one instance where a fired cap fouled the next cap in rotation. Easily cleared and proceeded with shooting.
After the first target, followed by three shots at the target on the right at 25 yards to get a feel for the sight picture and hold at that distance. Point of aim was dead center, using sight picture of front sight blade top level with hammer top in center of v-notch. I don't know if one shot was a flyer and missed completely, or if two shots went through the left hole. Balls pretty well tear up these cheapo AIM / Gallen splash targets that Scheels sells nowadays, and they shred so much it's hard to tell. I much prefer the Birchwood Casey targets they used to sell. Though the groups not great, at least consistent, and happy with that given my skill level with this pistol.
Finally, I took three shots at the dinner-plate-sized gong, also at 25 yards, holding just below the bottom of the gong, and hit it two out of three shots.
Amazing. Took about an hour to get off two cylinders' worth of twelve shots. And really incredible how much just those twelve shots dirtied up the pistol. After those twelve shots it was definitely getting hard to run that action, with the cylinder and trigger both starting to bind up. But that's all I needed to do today, so I'm happy with the results, even if only twelve shots.
Next is a complete disassembly and cleaning with maybe some polishing where I see wear patterns.
Side note for anyone for whom recoil is a decision matrix criterion: this pistol is an absolutely pussycat. I have .380 ACP pistols that have twice the felt recoil that this has.
New Uberti Colt 1860 Army.
First, six shots on the left-hand target at about seven yards. 25 grains FFFg Scheutzen with .454 Hornady balls on top of pre-lubed wads. I think the Uberti prefers the .457 balls, as I mostly got not quite a complete ring of lead shaved when I rammed. However, it shot those balls just fine anyway. I couldn't find any .44 cal .457 balls locally.
I didn't have any caps "sucked" by the hammer as I found mostly the caps just flew off the nipples when ignited. Though I did have one instance where a fired cap fouled the next cap in rotation. Easily cleared and proceeded with shooting.
After the first target, followed by three shots at the target on the right at 25 yards to get a feel for the sight picture and hold at that distance. Point of aim was dead center, using sight picture of front sight blade top level with hammer top in center of v-notch. I don't know if one shot was a flyer and missed completely, or if two shots went through the left hole. Balls pretty well tear up these cheapo AIM / Gallen splash targets that Scheels sells nowadays, and they shred so much it's hard to tell. I much prefer the Birchwood Casey targets they used to sell. Though the groups not great, at least consistent, and happy with that given my skill level with this pistol.
Finally, I took three shots at the dinner-plate-sized gong, also at 25 yards, holding just below the bottom of the gong, and hit it two out of three shots.
Amazing. Took about an hour to get off two cylinders' worth of twelve shots. And really incredible how much just those twelve shots dirtied up the pistol. After those twelve shots it was definitely getting hard to run that action, with the cylinder and trigger both starting to bind up. But that's all I needed to do today, so I'm happy with the results, even if only twelve shots.
Next is a complete disassembly and cleaning with maybe some polishing where I see wear patterns.
Side note for anyone for whom recoil is a decision matrix criterion: this pistol is an absolutely pussycat. I have .380 ACP pistols that have twice the felt recoil that this has.
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I normally fire 30 gr. FFG and hardly notice recoil.
I would still lube just as a precaution.
To be clear, the set screw in the end of the arbor is the bearing surface for the wedge (it locates into the wedge slot and does not protrude past the end of the arbor). It is NOT for correcting the arbor length. It does allow you to "customize" how far the wedge extends into /out of the wedge slot. The ARBOR LENGTH is corrected with a stainless spacer permanently mounted in the arbor hole.
With the wedge driven in, the spacer is pulled against the end of the arbor with extreme force and with full radial contact. That contact negates any structural loss since the screw is filling the void and under stress as well. That just means the end of the arbor can't just "pop" off since there is no space for it to go and force is keeping the barrel assy tight against it. Just having the wedge in "just so far" allows wedge material, barrel material and arbor material to be distorted with each shot since there's no force to maintain their position. Of course heavy powder loads will accelerate the damage especially in horse pistols.
Mike
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Tyler L
40 Cal
I had to do the set screw mod on my 1860. Even with the arbor spacer in place (~.070" thick on this gun), the wedge went in too far and bottomed out on the retaining screw.
Conversely, my 1851 was good with just the spacer in place.
Conversely, my 1851 was good with just the spacer in place.
