1858 Bolt

[swathdiver]

Replacing the bolt on a friend's Pietta Remington. The new bolt works as it should with no cylinder installed. However, it will not go to full cock (bolt comes up but doesn't stay) with the cylinder(s) installed.

What part of the bolt may need some work?

 

[M. De Land]

My guess would be that the bolt is either not fully seated in the cylinder notch to the bottom or is to tall an not allowing it to make a full cycle.It may be to wide to fully seat to the bottom of the notch. Check this with a bit of spotting fluid or grease on the bolt nose to see if it contacts the bottom of the notch.
The return spring is what lifts the bolt into the cylinder notch and the hammer cam is what retracts it from the notch via the spring finger on the other end. The bolt should have the nose dressed without compromising it's width when properly fit to the dressed cylinder notch.
The bolt should lift and clear the back of the cylinder notch just as the hand begins to rotate the cylinder and should drop ,ideally just before it re-engages the next notch but since 58's don't have lead in troughs anything past half way is exceptable in my opinion and helps brake cylinder rotation inertia to ease notch width and window peaning, which are not huge issues when cycled normally. Some folks can's stand a long drag line on a cylinder and think this constitutes mistiming. Lead in troughs are a great idea because they allow the bolt to seat deeper into the cylinder notch and make more contact with the stop wall on the back side. MD

 

[swathdiver]

The bolt originally was so high that on half cock it still protruded slightly above the frame. Now it's about even but still won't go into full cock. I've been filing and stoning and test fitting with the cylinder off the gun and on, still at it.

Thanks for the info!

 

[hawkeye2]

Be aware that the locking notches on the cylinder and the bolt on later Pietta '58 Remingtons are considerably wider than the older ones and a new bolt won't enter the notches on an older cylinder.

 

[jaxenro]

Take the bolt out and try fitting it in the notches in the cylinder. Check all the notches not just one. If its too wide to fit put it back in and mark the portion that protrudes above the frame and stone that thinner but only that portion then try the fit again

 

[swathdiver]

Yes, the original cylinder's notches are too narrow for the new bolt. The new cylinders are modern production and the bolt fits them perfectly but does seem a little tall. The hand is slightly shorter and properly shaped compared with a new un-fitted hand.

 

[swathdiver]

M.D. As I see it now, something is keeping the trigger from engaging the sear (and staying at full cock) with the cylinder installed. Half cock works fine and works perfect with cylinder off gun. The hammer travel seems to be the same as well, all the way back.

One thing though, it's very quiet, no loud clicks. I have an untouched gun made this year like this, works flawlessly and very accurate but you can barely hear it while cocking.

Any more suggestions?

 

[hawkeye2]

It sounds like the cylinder might be locking up before the hammer is back far enough to allow the trigger to engage the full cock notch. I had a similar issue with a NIB Uberti. The cause in this case was the gun had been fitted with the screw which holds the hand to the hammer so loose the screw flopped around. To cure the problem the fitter had left the hand long and when I was stoning the parts I tightened the screw. The hand then prevented the hammer from going all the way back when the bolt locked the cylinder as the hand was still engaged in the rachet. Shortening the hand resolved the problem.

 

[swathdiver]

That just might be it, will look at it from that angle tomorrow, thanks!

 

[swathdiver]

Couldn't wait and went to work on it tonight. That seems to be the problem and now both cylinder lock up on all chambers! Thanks!

BUT!!!

When lowering the hammer all the way down from full cock, the cylinder moves around and out of position for the bolt to lock the cylinder. Have to move the cylinder a hair clockwise (looking from the rear to front) to get the bolt to engage.

Hand too short now or still a trifle long? Or something else?

 

[swathdiver]

Alright, the question I gotta ask is why is the bolt retracting while lowering the hammer from full cock with the trigger pulled?

:idunno:

It doesn't do that with my other one.

 

[M. De Land]

The only thing I know of that retracts the bolt is the cam on the hammer catching the spring finger on the back end of the bolt. It's really hard to diagnose a problem without seeing what is actually happening with the moving parts.
How about removing the trigger guard leaving all the other parts in tacked and cycling the revolver upside down and watching the interrelation of the parts from the bottom. MD

 

[hawkeye2]

The hand could be too short. Try epoxying or super-gluing a piece of aluminum can to the top of the hand and try to see if that rotates the cylinder enough for the bolt to drop in. If so you can build up the hand or just buy a new one and fit that.

The bolt should stay up, locking the cylinder until you begin cocking the gun.

 

[AZbpBurner]

Couldn't wait and went to work on it tonight. That seems to be the problem and now both cylinder lock up on all chambers! Thanks!

BUT!!!

When lowering the hammer all the way down from full cock, the cylinder moves around and out of position for the bolt to lock the cylinder. Have to move the cylinder a hair clockwise (looking from the rear to front) to get the bolt to engage.

Hand too short now or still a trifle long? Or something else?

I got a Pietta 1858 last year with the same problem. Take a look at the bolt assembly. It resembles a crooked arm. On the inside radius of that arm, is there a small protruding tab? If so, grind it out, down to the smooth inner radius.

It's a simple fix with a medium grit, small diameter cylindrical Dremel stone.