10 ga. SXS proof pressure?

[Darkgael]

There was/is a post on another forum from a fellow who is considering buying a Pedersoli 10 ga. SXS for hunting. He wanted to know what the loads were. He'd like to use "two or three" ounces of shot. He was also thinking that maybe smokeless would work. I noted that that was a bad idea.
I suggested that such a load (2-3oz.) fired with BP at a velocity worth hunting with might generate pressures at or more than proof pressures.
But....I really don't know. Does anyone know at what pressures those SGs are proofed? Pedersoli recommends 85 grains FFg and 1 1/4oz of shot. One BP manual that I read through went to 90 grains.
Pete

 

[J.D.]

This guy sounds like a candidate for a Darwin award.

I'm afraid you will have to try to contact Pedersoli to see if they will give you that information.

god bless

 

[paulvallandigham]

The heaviest charge listed in my Hodgdon "Data Manual No.23", for a 10 gauge is 124 grains of FFg powder( 4.5 drams), and 1 1/2 oz. of shot, for a MV of 1067. No chamber pressures are given. You might look at Lyman's Shotshell reloading manual for dram equivalent loads of smokeless powder, realizing that smokeless powder loads, even in shotguns create chamber pressures many Times the pressure created by BP. It depends on the gauge, with the small gauges generating more PRESSURE with both powders.

The "Light load" give by Hodgdon in this manual is 3 3/4 drams( 102 grains) of FFg, and 1 1/4 oz. of shot, for 1059 MV.

Both these loads are substantially ABOVE the 3 dram load recommended by Pedersoli. Stick with the Manufacturer's suggestions, IMHO. They know better how well they built the gun. :shocked2: :idunno: :surrender: :thumbsup:

Someone trying to make a BP 10 ga. shotgun into a 50 or 60 yd killing machine, by trying to load it like Modern 10 gauge magnums are loaded doesn't understand BP ballistics, and is dreaming his way into serious injury or death. With a full choke, your 10 gauge MIGHT be able to shoot good enough patterns with heavy enough shot to kill birds out to 40 yds. It depends on the gun, and the load you use. BP shotguns tend to shoot better patterns using less powder, rather than more. Please NOTE that all the loads for the 10 gauge fall BELOW the Speed of sound.(1135 fps.) There is a reason for that. Whereas, by comparison, Modern 10 gauge loads all are ABOVE the SOS. There is a reason for that, too. Apples and Oranges. :hmm: :wink: :thumbsup:

 

[remuse]

My Pedersoli 10 is marked for 109gr and 1 1/2 oz which I take to be the max load. I shoot 90gr and 1 1/4 oz which rattles my teeth plenty in this 7 1/2 lb gun.

No idea how they proof these but modern guns are proofed at about 18,000 psi for a service load of 11,500 psi as I recall.

My favorite "regular" guns(both 12s)are an 1890 Parker with damascus barrels and a Remington 1889 hammer gun with twist barrels in which I shoot modern shells loaded to replicate the original bp pressures of around 7,500 psi.

Very poor idea to try to make anything do what it wasn't designed to do.I'm much too fond of my body parts.

 

[Leonredbeard]

Weston,
I hope you will consider quitting shooting smokeless in those original twist barrels. Chuck Dixon told me that you will get away with it for a while. Then he lead me over to look at a split chamber on one he had hanging on the ceiling. :shocked2: That convinced me not to continue the practice in my Lefever with twist barrels. :v
Volatpluvia

 

[paulvallandigham]

Not only should you use ONLY Black Powder in the Twist Steel barrels, ( Not Twist finish), often called "Damascus"( some are, some aren't), but if these are breech loaders, take advantage of the face that Brass Casings are now available in most gauges. These casings can be reloaded many times. They offer an extra bit of safety to contain breech pressures in these old guns that will protect the gun and you for many years to come.

If you own an old gun that has seen many better days, with signs of deep pitting, you can often save an HEIRLOOM gun by having its barrel Lined, with a new, steel, liner. Bobby Hoyt comes to mind as one gunsmith skilled in doing this type of work. And, a friend of mine saved an Heirloom LeFever shotgun by having the Damascus steel barrels cut off in front of the chambers, and new barrels with "sleeves, to line the thicker area of the chambers made, to give him entirely new barrels. He still used low pressure, light loads in the gun, as the receiver was not made of materials strong enough to take much pounding from high pressure loads.

 

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Dixie Gun Catalog in the reference section has proofs loads and standard loads for most of the Productions BP firearms out there.
Your friend is looking to load Cannon loads...
I have a 1" bore that I have not loaded that heavy. It weights 27 pounds ( Just the barral) and I am happy with less fun.

 

[remuse]

Paul, professor Oscar Gaddy of the U of Ill in your home town is credited with doing much of the research work to resurrect the old composite barrel guns to shooting status. Oscar died a few years back but there is a shooting trophy in his honor awarded each year at the Parker vs LC Smith competition in NC for shooters of damascus/twist barreled guns. BP equivalent loads but no bp.

It goes without saying that guns of any vintage or construction in poor condition should be relegated to wall hanger status or perhaps sleeved as you suggest if it's just got to be done.

As it relates to the original question, my point was simply that it is wrong to make something do what it wasn't designed to do. My apologies to all for dragging this off topic.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Dr. Gaddy was a personal friend for years. He is the man who sleeved the L.C. Smith DB shotgun for another friend of mine. Before his death, he published 4 articles in the Double Gun Journal, telling his formula for Bone Charcoal Case Hardening, a process which had been lost for more than 90 years before he finally put it together successfully, and a second set of articles on how to refinish the old guns, showing how different colors could be made on damascus steel barrels. Oscar was one of the First persons authorized to work on refinishing English "BEST" guns in the states, and had a huge number of friends in the Parker shotgun association. Professionally, Oscar was the head of the Electrical and Electronic Engineering Department at the University of Illinois and was responsible for a number of break throughs in the field of electronics. About a year before his death from cancer, he lost his last hunting dog- a Britainy Spaniel, and his Wife told me that she thought the dog's death hurried Oscar's. He lived only a few months after being diagnosed. I still miss him, and think of him often. I wanted to go hunting with him, but that didn't happen. He was an early member of Champaign County Rifle Association, now GunsSaveLife, Inc., and was our first "treasurer". His observations about gun rights politics were always insightful, and his comments were sought out and listened to carefully by all members of the committee and later the Board of Directors of the organization. For years before we got involved in the Assoc., I would see him and visit with him at local gun shows. He was a wealth of information, a Fine Shotgun shooter, with whom I shot and competed against many times over a span of 30 years, and always a friend to those who met him. I don't know anyone who ever had a critical thing to say about Oscar. I saw some of his "before" and " after" work on Parker and L.C. Smith, and all I can say is that Oscar was a serious and capable machinist, and when he took on the job to restore an old gun, NO customer was ever disappointed with the outcome. His work was meticulous. If your organization has chosen to honor Oscar that way, all I can say is Thank you for all his friends here in Champaign- Urbana, Illinois. I am sure he is looking down and appreciating being embarrassed by your kindness.

People like Oscar do not come this way more than once in your lifetime. Pay attention when you meet such a person, and remember your good fortune. His widow, Mary Gaddy, is also such a "gem".

 

[Lorne Johnson]

I didn't know Oscar Gaddy personally, but he certainly has the reputation of being a truly great contributor to the resurrection of old or antique doubles.

Nice tribute, Paul!

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Paul - Where can you get the brass casiings you mention?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Check Suppliers. The major ones have them. I know Dixie carries them. I have found them for sale on tables at gun shows.