How many offhand shots before back pain?

[mmb617]

I'm 70 years old and in pretty good shape. I lift weights 3 times a week, something I've done for over 40 years. Most of my range sessions are 20-24 shots all offhand, and by the end of the session my back usually feels pretty tired but no big deal.

Yesterday I was doing some testing with two of my rifles and shot more than usual, taking 16 shots with each rifle. Towards the end my back started feeling tired but by the last shot is was feeling more painful than just tired. I hurt just walking up to retrieve my targets, but felt better in a few hours, enough that I was able to do my normal squat routine that evening.

I'm curious about how shooting offhand affects your back, especially maybe some guys who are my age or older. I guess it sort of raised the question of when will the time come that I'm restricted to bench shooting.

 

[mushka]

I'm 77 and have chronic back pain. Sometimes not to bad and sometimes really troublesome. Shooting a heavy barreled gun would be a real culprit. My back troubles affect my walking more than my shooting though. Ibuprofen is my friend.

 

[FishDFly]

Lots of old rifle offhand shooters are now pistol shooters.

 

[Flintlock]

Sometimes I can handle 20 shots without a problem them on other days just lifting my arms like I'm holding a rifle about puts me down. I used to shoot a lot and I mean a lot but after a hit and run then later getting off a horse unexpectedly has really put a damper in things. A actual massage therapist can greatly improve my shooting when I can.

 

[sheriff john]

At 72, everything hurts or doesn't work. Were I a smart geezer, I'd practice just holding a rifle in the offhand position every morning to build up those muscles and joints. But I'm not, so I read forums, drink coffee, and .....miss targets a lot more often than I used to.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I'm curious about how shooting offhand affects your back, especially maybe some guys who are my age or older. I guess it sort of raised the question of when will the time come that I'm restricted to bench shooting.

I'm 59...
eight years ago I missed deer season because I could barely walk from the car to the house on some days. Shooting offhand at a range? Wasn't happening.

My wife got me to go see her Chiropractor. I didn't want to go because the Chiropractic doctors I had met had been rather "odd ducks", so to speak.
The two doctors made some pretty amazing observations, and I started to get adjustments. I had a LOT of stuff that was out of adjustment, and it took a while, but by the middle of 2015, I had no more leg/back/neck pain, and was back to the range.

Then while driving to work,I got hit from behind by a car moving at 60 mph. It was back to square-one. The orthopedic surgeons who looked me over found I was 15% disabled, AND I needed surgery on both hands from past carpal tunnel concerns as well as hand damage since I had been holding the steering wheel when struck while sitting in a traffic jam. The hand surgeon told me I had a year before I would lose the use of both hands due to pain and nerve damage.

After workman's comp (what a joke) was done..., I was able to go back to my Chiropractors. They checked me out and told me I didn't need surgery, but I did need some shoulder adjustment.
Well it's been 7 years, and not only did I not need the surgery, but my hands still are pain free.

What's the point of this information?

You can be out of alignment and not have chronic pain, but it will worsen over time, and show up in odd places. Mine was in my hands and in my legs below the knee, plus sometimes lower back.
You should see a Chiropractor if you're not already. (I thought they were quacks..., nope..., a good one actually works)
Find one that uses a "table" that prevents over-correction when being adjusted. That's a major key to the solution.

My dad is 91, never saw a chiropractor, and has a spine now like a pretzel. He can barely get out of his assist-chair. That's not going to be me, and I hope not you either. I think your pain is an indicator of alignment problems. Please have it checked.

Good luck.

LD

 

[doubleset]

How many offhand shots before back pain? 0.

My back is in pretty good shape now, but a few years ago I had a REALLY bad incident triggered by shooting in a match with my Lyman GPR. I won't begin to describe the degree of pain and immobility that hit me after I got home and was cleaning the gun. Ultimately (after trying other things for about a year) it ended in neurosurgery (surprisingly the best -- "non-invasive" -- surgical experience I've ever had: just amazing). But I now still have to be careful of stressing the lower spine and particularly of lifting things. However, I can now shoot again though I've gone to a lighter rifle and need to take care with my stance, and actually sit down and rest between relays if I can (what a concept!).

If your back is bothering you, you might seriously think of getting a referral from a doctor (primary care, ortho, whatever) to a physical therapist and develop an effective exercise regimen for it. The PT after my surgery was a HUGE help -- and left me with easy/quick exercises I can (and will) do to maintain my situation and to correct it if I overdue at times. The neurosurgeon who fixed me is fantastic (and the new surgical methods and analgesiacs are amazing), and he said if I have more trouble I can come back and he can fix me again (with references to how Tiger Woods has been fixed any number of times), but he also said that due to aging and natural deterioration, things just ain't going to get a lot better and prevention and caution are the orders of the day.

 

[rich pierce]

I try to dry fire 10 offhand shots in succession several days a week. I’m 68 and have rods in my thoracic spine. I feel the tension with my heavier rifles. If I am loading and shooting every 2-3 minutes I’m good.

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

I'm only 46 but my body has had a hard life growing up playing football, baseball, basketball, and hockey through college, then add 23 years of combat arms in the Army and jumping out of good airplanes for no reason, it all equals 100% disability rating. Of course, I'm 6'6 270 as well. My pain is more in my feet and knees shooting off hand all day which leads to lower back pain in not much time. The doctor recommends I wear specialized insoles in my shoes which I transfer over into the moccasins. Issue is they moccasins don't exactly fit correct as my "Special walking shoes" (in my best Forrest Gump voice). But, my favorite type of shoots are Woods walks, it is much easier on the softer ground then shooting off a concrete or gravel surface that usually are on most paper shoot ranges. I find that by keeping only the necessary items needed in my pouch it limits the weight I'm carrying and pulling down on my shoulders and neck. For instance, it if a 20-shot course I am only bringing 25 balls with me, etc. Some guy's bags (plural) are completely stuffed, and they carry everything like they are going off on a 6-month hunt. All this plus powder horn adds up over time. Some guys on woods walk carry, tomahawks, throwing knives, pistols, when they are not needed for the course. To each there own but it's not for me, if not needed for the course. 800 milligram Motrin before shooting helps a bunch. But many of my older competitors started using TN Mountain rifles in smaller calibers and 36" barrels or swamped to reduce the weight for offhand shooting as well. This has help keep them active in the sport.

 

[doubleset]

Oh ... And take this from someone who spent a lot of time in drug safety analysis and research, though I am not a physician and this is not medical advice. Just some scientific facts that you can find on the web if you look for them in various places (e.g., Mayo clinic site, etc.).

Care should be taken with ibuprofen. Ask your doctor. Habitual/regular/constant use of NSAIDS can have rather dangerous and serious consequences, especially for elderly patients (like us). The ones usually mentioned include an increase in blood pressure and possible cardiac effects. But a major danger to those who take NSAIDS regularly is the the possibility of "GI bleed" -- which can sneak up on you, then become sudden, and just kill you. This danger increases with age. My sister (a critical care nurse for decades) has also described being involved in a number of cases like this.

One thing that might be considered as an alternative to systemic NSAIDS is something like Voltaren cream. This is a topical NSAID that doesn't have the same risk profile as systemic NSAIDS. Orthopods love this stuff. In my own case I use it periodically on my artificial knee (now almost 15 years old) when I over-stress it. It's OTC now and easily available. But must be used as directed and not over-used. Check with your doctor about it. And really ... be seriously careful with the Ibuprofen.

 

[andy52]

I'm 70 and a lot depends on how much the rifle weights. I don't normally have an issue with my back when shooting rifles under 10 lbs. However when I bring out my .72 rifle at near 13 lbs my shoulder start giving out at about 10 rounds.

 

[oldwood]

Had to build my huntin' buddy and self two new rifles from soft light weight white maple. They weighed out ar 6 lb. and a bit. Used 7/8 by .50 by 37 " long. My friend is 82 ,and was very surprised , when I handed him the new gun. We used to chase the mountains ,but now ,it's ladder stands next to a game preserve. We discovered that deer have cloven hoofs , so they can smoke cigars , by holding the cigar between the toes on their hoofs. They sit back in the laurel , smoke , and make fun of old hunters. ............oldwood

 

[mushka]

Yeah Doubleset, I understand about the ibuprofen. I don't use it a the time. I'll try the voltarin, haven't heard of it. We will see about it.

 

[ord sgt]

While not totally back related, last winter, I had surgery for a partial rotator cuff tear and bone spur removal in my right shoulder (right handed). Physical therapy and exercise at home has brought back some strength but nowhere near my former strength. Some of the exercise was in the form of finishing a half stock rifle that was started before the injury. Shooting the new rifle to get the sights and powder/patch/ball combination right has been my objective. The rifle was built primarily to introduce women to the wonderful world of muzzle loading firearms.
Most of the shooting has been from the bench. However, reloading requires standing. Load, sit and shoot, stand and load, which brings in another problem. There is a bone spur in my right hip. That is something else to deal with, as I am also a Range Safety Officer. Walking back and forth along the firing line on cement. Okay, as long as I am moving but after sitting and trying to walk becomes painful until the muscles loosen.
Getting old sucks but it's better than the final solution. We all have to deal with our own miseries in our own way.
Have as much fun as you can, while you are able. Keep on keeping on.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

I'm 70 years old and in pretty good shape. I lift weights 3 times a week, something I've done for over 40 years. Most of my range sessions are 20-24 shots all offhand, and by the end of the session my back usually feels pretty tired but no big deal.

Yesterday I was doing some testing with two of my rifles and shot more than usual, taking 16 shots with each rifle. Towards the end my back started feeling tired but by the last shot is was feeling more painful than just tired. I hurt just walking up to retrieve my targets, but felt better in a few hours, enough that I was able to do my normal squat routine that evening.

I'm curious about how shooting offhand affects your back, especially maybe some guys who are my age or older. I guess it sort of raised the question of when will the time come that I'm restricted to bench shooting.

Over my 50+ years of shooting I have changed my main rifle 2 times. Each time getting a shorter or lighter rifle. We all go down hill with age. Your weight lifting is good for muscle tone, if a person does it correctly. Try including some dry fire with your weight lifting. You will be toning your body for shooting. To me the key is to exercise where you need to tone with the proper amount of weight and time. (JMO)
Larry

 

[Josephg]

I shoot a lot of offhand matches with heavy rifles in the 12 -16 pound range. Six years ago I started using an inversion table.
That simple device has added new life to my shooting. Before using it I could not get 80 shots off in two hours with a 12 pound rifle without severe pain in my back.
Now I can use a 16 pound rifle for 100 shot matches. Still get a little sore but nothing like before. I shoot a lot of offhand so that helps keep my back muscles in shape.
Know of a shooter who uses Baclofen to control back pain. Don't know much about it or it's side effects.

 

[dave951]

I'm 64 and have spinal damage from being shot, story for another time. I still work as a remodeling contractor/master carpenter and shoot quite often. I have no issues shooting offhand. All North South Skirmish Association competition is offhand, so that's how I practice when not doing load development/experimentation. The only time my back really starts to talk to me is when I'm laying hardwood floor or have to do a tile floor. The up/down aggravates my lower back scar tissue and once it gets going, I can do nothing but lay down for a couple days. The issue I have that is really annoying is stenosis (small bone "spurs") in my neck. Sometimes when I've got my offhand position, it's like a "crick" in my neck and I have to come off the position and start over.

 

[Mark Herman]

I'm going on 78 and have had several major back surgeries, no more or very little offhand shooting now. Holding an offhand rifle, even a light one, pulls on your shoulder and back muscles and. Becomes unbearable. I've gone to table and chunk gun shooting and it works just fine. Tired at the end of a matchbut not as sore as offhand.

 

[mushka]

I investigated the voltarin and it says to use on joints only on the box. I guess it's not for muscular lower back pain.

 

[dave951]

Glucosamine condroitin with all the extras helps. It takes at least a week to start noticing the effect but it can help with joint pain. Best thing is it doesn't fry your kidneys like ibuprofen.

Edit, meant to say kidney instead of liver but hey, I'm not a doctor but I have stayed in a Holiday Inn