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Makers Mark Identification

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Joined
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Location
Greenville, SC
I've owned this musket for over 30 years, received it in trade against an unpaid debt, I was told it was a 1740's Dutch Musket at the time, but know nothing else in regards to it's history.
So after reading threads here for the last month, I'm wondering if anyone identify these makers marks in the attached pictures (yes, I know, not the greatest).

Thanks in advance,

Bill
 

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Fine looking gun!! Any details you can share?

Plenty of 20 year old detail pictures I had another friend take, but aside from that, I'm less than a novice when it comes to Flintlocks.

Mine is a simple story, lost my 87 year old mother late last year, just finished the cleanup of her home, which got our thoughts stirring as to what will happen when we finally go. Got my wife and I to start going through the attic, garage, closets, etc to see what our descendants may or may not want. 5 moves in 36 years, to say we have accumulated quite a bit would be an understatement...So, time to organize and list what is, and what is not valuable enough to list in our will(s). This has always been stored in our master closet, wrapped in an old blanket, for the last three moves. Pretty much untouched, now it's time to gather the required information as to what we actually have on our hands.

So, once again, any guidance, or assistance, would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Bill
 

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Last edited:
Additional pics
 

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The style of the barrel marks are Spanish in style but the gun seems more French or German influences , Its in tidy order by the pics .Finding your man the buyer is ever the problem but Ide say its moderatly high end certainly a nice piece . It seems to be a fowling piece good luck with it .
Regards Rudyard
 
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Not many fowlers have either a full-length stock or a bayonet. It is also VERY ornate if it was intended to be a military piece. Is it smooth-bored or rifled? From the rounded butt-piece I'd give it a rough date of the early 1700's. In any event, it is a beautiful piece of historical interest to any collector of firearms of that era.
 
Fine firearm , I think it is too ornate to be a military firearm .
. The 3 small marks on the barrel flat look like English marks but need a close up with as much crud removed as possible .
I have just had a look at my Flintlock Fowlers book and it looks like a club butt fowler which either came with a bayonet or was fitted with one in the French and Indian war or the American revolution.
Besides a better look at what appear to be proof or makers marks we need the most important photos for identification , that is a close up of the lock and trigger guard/grip from the righthand side . Also the right of the Butt .
All the interesting brass bits do not help in identifying the firearm , except to say it is a special and interesting firearm , a lot of American made fowlers had that sort of fancy brass work
The CS in the wood is most probably the owners initials
TFoley if you read "Flintlock Fowlers , the first guns made in America by Tom Grinsdale" you will see all the guns in the book were full stock , some were fitted with bayonets as I said above .
These early American fowlers usually had British made barrels and locks , so Brit proof marks are not out of the question
 
First, thanks for the responses, gives me more information in one night than I've had in the last 30 years.

Second, I've attached closer shots of the Makers marks (I am identifying the name of them correctly?) as well as a barrel length and barrel width shot.

As always, your guidance is greatly appreciated

Sincerely,

Bill

PS: To the best of my ability, it appears to be a smooth bore. Tried taking a picture inside with my Iphone, I failed miserably
 

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The bayonet lug is tell tale to me if the bayonet fits. That bayonet in itself is quite interesting. Looks to be the same vintage as the firearm. Does it fit the gun?

Had to go back to take some additional pictures to respond to your question. Yes, it appears to fit the gun barrel quite well (snug fit) as the attached pictures show. Does this help with identifying it, or does this make identification harder?

Thanks again for your help, it really is appreciated by this novice.

Bill
 

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The style of the barrel marks are Spanish in style but the gun seems more French or German influences , Its in tidy order by the pics .Finding your man the buyer is ever the problem but Ide say its moderatly high end certainly a nice piece . It seems to be a fowling piece good luck with it .
Regards Rudyard

My wife and I are just starting this endevour as mentioned above, not really looking for a buyer, at least not at this time and our current mindset. Just looking to catalog what we have. Some things are worth listing in our will, others not so much. Our future heirs have lives of their own, just starting their families (two great nieces on their way), but based on what they asked for, or turned down from their grandparents home, we are starting to question everything. As with everything these days, the next generation does not appear to cherish what ours does.

Bill
 
Fine firearm , I think it is too ornate to be a military firearm .
. The 3 small marks on the barrel flat look like English marks but need a close up with as much crud removed as possible .
I have just had a look at my Flintlock Fowlers book and it looks like a club butt fowler which either came with a bayonet or was fitted with one in the French and Indian war or the American revolution.
Besides a better look at what appear to be proof or makers marks we need the most important photos for identification , that is a close up of the lock and trigger guard/grip from the righthand side . Also the right of the Butt .
All the interesting brass bits do not help in identifying the firearm , except to say it is a special and interesting firearm , a lot of American made fowlers had that sort of fancy brass work
The CS in the wood is most probably the owners initials
TFoley if you read "Flintlock Fowlers , the first guns made in America by Tom Grinsdale" you will see all the guns in the book were full stock , some were fitted with bayonets as I said above .
These early American fowlers usually had British made barrels and locks , so Brit proof marks are not out of the question

Not 100% sure what you were asking for, perhaps I need coffee first, so hopefully these 11 pictures cover your request. If not, let me know.

Bill
 

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Gaaaah! Lovely gun, Spanish barrel which was used on high quality guns all over Europe. Gun is circa 1700 and could be Dutch or Belgian. Need Dave Person and Geysman Peter to chime in. Definitely high quality, officer’s gun, whether made as a fusil for military or not.
 
Hi,
I don't think it is a Spanish barrel. There is no city mark or cross and other European makers stamped their barrels in ways similar to the Spanish. I think it is Dutch all the way down, built as a civilian sporting gun and then cut back for a very poorly made bayonet. They could not fit a proper one because the cut back would take out the forward ramrod thimble. In Arne Hoff's book on Dutch firearms, there is a fowler made in Maastricht with almost identical hardware and stock. It might be good to remember that Maastricht was under Spanish rule during the first half of the 17th century so they have been influenced by the Spanish.

dave
 

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