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my half-breed rifles

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This thread has a long history. But, like a lot of history, things can go full circle.
The rifles pictured are what we ("we" meaning wife and I and hauling our kids with us) call our 'half breed poor man's target rifles'. We used to live near Friendship and often traveled to other local clubs to compete. For a lot of matches good sights and good barrels were necessary to compete successfully. We could never afford any of the fine custom rifles we saw, like Clark Frazier, and others. So, I came up with this idea of cobbling together something we could afford and use those. My rifle, the larger one on top in the pic, is easily recognizable as a TC 'hawken'. Only it has a 37" Douglas premium barrel instead of the factory one. My wife's is a TC Seneca with a 32" Douglas premium barrel. Both are .45 cal. and 1:66" twist. For the hawken I use .457" rb and ticking patching. The Seneca likes .445 balls and the same patch cloth. On both are mounted Redfield Olympic peep sights. Both also have fixed sights for open sight matches and my wife used to use hers for hunting. Kilt two deer with it. For light bench and Buffalo 'X' stick matches I used to clamp on two or three 1# lead ingots for extra weight.
Now, the full circle part. I haven't used mine for quite a few years as I became a flintlock addict. About two years ago I tore up the rotator in my left shoulder and haven't shot in that period of time. I'm partially restored now but still cannot lift all rifles like my Jaeger flinter. Just too heavy. And I can't lift the hawken half-breed either. So, I am now going to be using my wife's Seneca half-breed for competition since it is light enough for me to lift
TCrifles.jpg
[/img] . My club allows peepers so that is where it will get the most use. We have had these since about 1970 and they have seen much use and have given us much pleasure. My wife has stacks of medals won in competition, including Friendship. Interestingly, those Redfield Olympic sights are worth more today than the rifles.
 
A family man has to make do with what he can afford! I am a family man myself, I was introduced to a flintlock by my friend Mike Markey( he is also the builder) I want one too but alas the budget just will not allow that kind of money to be spent on a rifle. So I am using my T/C Hawken bone stock, but at least it is a traditional style muzzleloader, and I use 3F bp and prb in it
 
Seems like basic common sense to me. I've re-barreled or added accessory barrels to several T/C and Lyman rifles to achieve a special purpose without the expense of building a special gun.
Here is one example, a T/C Renegade shown with a 36" 20 gauge smoothbore barrel and RPL flintlock. The same stock also accepts a 32" Sharon .54 rifle barrel, a T/C .56 smoothbore barrel and the original T/C .50 rifle barrel, those all being percussion.
Renegade1-1.jpg
 
I took the TCs to the range today to dial them in since they had sat so long. Both grouped beautifully at 50 yards. Used .445 balls with ticking lubed with my mix of beeswax and whale oil. The Seneca took 55 gr. FFFg Goex and the 'hawken' used 65 gr same powder.
Hope to find some 'X's with them at the big shoot in two weeks.
 
Do you have any pictures showing how you mounted the sights. I have a Redfield Palma and an Olympic
sitting in my Hi-power drawer.
 
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Thanks for the pics. I have a couple of questions.
Do you clean without removing the sight? Has the sight remained tight? Do you remove it for primitive sight matches and replace and re-zero for
other matches?
 
IMO, mounting an Olympic or Redfield sight on a sidelock rifle is like putting a flatscreen TV with a Quadraphonic surround sound system in the back seat of a otherwise stock Model T ford sedan.
 
I take it that you have kids, or grandchildren to spoil? Never would have thought of that in a model T. :surrender:

Seriously though,
I just got back from the Shelbourne Museum in VT where the collection from Terry Tyler, author of Gunmakers of VT is on display and many of the rifles had barrel mounted and tang mounted peep sights that I am quite sure would equal the Redfield sights of today, of course minus the quarter minute clicks and such. I will send some pictures as some of them are very interesting.
 
BrianL said:
Thanks for the pics. I have a couple of questions.
Do you clean without removing the sight? Has the sight remained tight? Do you remove it for primitive sight matches and replace and re-zero for
other matches?

Normally I'll leave the sights on for cleaning. The sights do remain tight although I will check the screws before a match. Yes, they are designed to be removed for use with primitive sights. Even though the zero holds quite well it is always a good idea to re-zero before a match.
 
Zonie said:
IMO, mounting an Olympic or Redfield sight on a sidelock rifle is like putting a flatscreen TV with a Quadraphonic surround sound system in the back seat of a otherwise stock Model T ford sedan.


And....yer point is?????? :rotf: :rotf:
Actually, at Friendship and many other range matches one will see a lot of strange things. Did you ever see a Frazier target rifle or those space age looking thingys on the pistol range?
'X' hunting ain't a woods walk. :wink:
 
BrianL said:
I take it that you have kids, or grandchildren to spoil? Never would have thought of that in a model T. :surrender:

Seriously though,
I just got back from the Shelbourne Museum in VT where the collection from Terry Tyler, author of Gunmakers of VT is on display and many of the rifles had barrel mounted and tang mounted peep sights that I am quite sure would equal the Redfield sights of today, of course minus the quarter minute clicks and such. I will send some pictures as some of them are very interesting.


Back in the days of serious 'X' hunting we were raising two sones. One had no interest in shooting. The other did have some interest and did well in some matches. Both shot mls for a number of years until other interestes (guess what :wink: ) distracted them. Our late in life daughter had no interest but recently has acquired some. My grandchildren are being spoiled by their very rich other grandfather with modern guns. I can't compete with that but do try to help them understand early American history.
 
Where do you find sights like that? I have seen some with them on it but never see sights like that for sale.
 
Blackfoot,
Check on flea bay under rifle sights. They come up often and are priced from here to there.
Mark
 
Blackfoot said:
Where do you find sights like that? I have seen some with them on it but never see sights like that for sale.

Check out target shooting sites for modern guns. These are from the modern gun world.
The Olympic style is no longer made but other, similar, sights still are.
Also check suppliers like Midway, Brownell's, etc. There are probably ads in the American Rifleman magazine.
Beforewarned. They aren't cheap. :shocked2: Also, if you aren't handy with such things, a good gunsmith will be needed to make the mounts and do the drilling.
Let is know what you do. And show us.
 
Took me a while to respond to this post because I never took pictures of my "Half-breed". It's a Lyman GPR with a Rice .40 caliber match grade barrel. I installed a Lyman 57 GPR rear sight base with a Lyman 90 MJT upper armature with a Merit aperture. I also installed a Lyman 20 MJT front sight. The rifle has a factory lock with a Davis Deer-slayer trigger group. Shoots pretty well. :wink:

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i'm family man too, our son Isaac is 3 and our daughter Audrey June is 9 months. i work three jobs, one full time and two part time casual. i am very blessed in that my amazing wife totally supports my BP addic.. i mean hobby. i make it down to friendship twice a year and host/ compete in long range muzzle loading matches. but, i always save my lunch money to build my guns that i have and the same for going to shoots.

i'm piecing together a rigby rifle at the moment, i've got a krieger .450/.458 1-16" twist blank getting profiled and breeched at ed rayls now. and just saved enough for the rest of the hard ware. maybe by this fall i'll have it up and shooting.
 

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