PRB...Not for me

Believe me, I am not worried in the least. I do believe that there is a place for PRB loads. At the range. However, that place is not in MY rifle when hunting. I will use the thing to hunt game that can hunt back. I have taken Moose, Brown Bear, Black Bear, and Boar with my scoped Encore, and now want to try something a bit more challenging. The Hawken, with iron sights seems to be more of a challenge to me.
For whatever it's worth, I think that if you are hunting Bear or Boar, the ability to reload rapidly is a safety requirement. I have no need to impress anyone at the range, as most the people who shoot at my club think as I do. There is an awfully big difference between a shot that kills, and a shot that stops. Nothing survives a bullet through both lungs or a heart shot, but they can keep on coming till they drop. A "rapid" reload with a muzzleloader is still really slow, but I try to get it done as fast as I can.
So, it appears that we have agreed to disagree. I have no problem with that. I respect your opinions, and I hope you will extend me the same courtesy.
Good Shooting to all.

 

Claude
Combination of a few thing. First, A few years ago, I was given a 209-50 muzzle loading barrel for my Encore. So, for the fun of it, I tried it with P'belts, and pellets. Didn't like the accuracy with pellets, and went to loose BP, or Pyrodex RS. Decided that it might be a challenge to hunt with it, so I took it out for deer. I then tried it on Moose, with a heavier bullet. Worked fine, so I tried Boar. Still worked, so I too it to Alaska for bear. Still worked. Decided that I wanted more of a challenge, so I got the Hawken.
So, I guess you could say that I got into muzzleloading for the adrenelin rush it provides.
However, that being said, I am not prepared to face a Brown Bear with a 175 gr. PRB, when I can use a 405 gr. P'belt. Easy loading, accurate, good terminal effect. I have never had one fail on me, and will happily continue to spend the extra bucks for peace of mind.
I would probably use PRB on deer, except I usually hunt them with a revolver.
Hope this answers your question

 

[tnlonghunter]

I am not prepared to face a Brown Bear with a 175 gr. PRB, when I can use a 405 gr. P'belt.

Can't say I would feel much different. If you're not comfortable with what you've got, it'll make hunting something that big that much more dangerous. Good luck.

 

[gmww]

Powder puff??? I thought a powder puff was something ya use on a babies behind!! What does powder puffs have to do with hunting?

I was wondering this myself. Me thinks it's his creative nickname for powerbelts. Just a guess though. :hmm:

 

[paulvallandigham]

I think you should consider using a " New York Reload", that is, have a second, loaded gun, that either your guide carries for you, or that you have someone else on the hunt carry and hand to you. YOu cannot Reload a ML rifle, even an Encore, fast enough if a Brown bears decides to fight back. Guides routinely carry substantial large bore caliber rifles to back up their clients. Its not good for business for clients to be mauled, and killed by wounded bears.

If I were going to hunt Brown Bear with a ML, I would be using as large a caliber rifle as I could handle, with a huge conical. I still would use Black Powder, rather than the subs, because it is reliable in firing, and the most consistently accurate. Believe me, if any of the subs, including the pyrodex, were as accurate or more accurate than Black Powder, the slug gun shooters, and chunk gun shooters would be shooting the stuff. I know that a .58 caliber conical was used to kill a brown bear, but if I could find a .62 or 69 caliber rifle, I would choose that even over the .58. With a conical cast from wheelweights, you have enough oomph to break down shoulder bones, even in the big bears, to immobilize the bear while you take your second gun, or reload to finish him off, if needed. ]

 

I fully agree. The references to "Rapid" reload were meant to be tongue in cheek. I don't think that I said, or even implied that I could reload in time to stop a charge.
I have taken a Brown with the .50 Encore, 4X Leupold scope, 405 gr. P'Belt and 130 gr. Pyrodex RS. Range was a measured (after the shot) 31 yards. Bear was broadside, and I was able to break its neck. No follow up needed. Guide had to put down his .458 before he could slap me on the back and say "nice shot".
We had decided in advance of leaving camp that he was not going to fire unless we were being put in mortal danger. Whether to shoot or not was to be his call. By the way, I did have a Freedom Arms .454 Casull on my hip as a last resort.
(I may be crazy, but I ain't stupid)
Had the bear started to run in any direction except toward us, I feel that I probably could have reloaded in time to get another shot off before the bear made it to cover. Maybe yes, maybe no. I'm happy that I didn't have to find out. Sorry if anything I wrote misled you. I tried to be as clear as I could.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Paul,

Just out of curiosity, does the Kodiak .72 Rifle have a medium, fast or slow-twist set of barrels? I can't remember! I did handle/fondle one in a Cabela's several months ago.

Reason I ask is that if the barrel is medium or fast-twist, the NEW YORK RELOAD is already aimed at the Bear! Sort of like using a .600 Nitro English Double on Elephant, wouldn't you say?

All the best!

Dave

 

[paulvallandigham]

I believe this Pedersoli web page will answer the question for you. It apparently comes in two different ROTs, depending on the model chosen. One seems to be 1:72 and one is 1:75. That would be a slow twist, but enough to stablize a conical slug. I only wish the gun came with longer barrels.
[url] http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/ArmiCategoria.aspx?CategoriaId=247&lang=en[/url]

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Just found the twist rates for all of the different calibers:

1 turn in 24 for both the .50 and .54 versions

1 turn in 48 for the .58 version (still O-K for a nice BIG Maxi!)

1 turn in 75 for the .72 version (PRB-Twist!)

So my idea of a BIG Double with a Maxi isn't so far-fetched after-all!

Dave

 

[Snakebite]

Rapid reload, big caliber, bah!! Just take a buddy with you you can out run. That way you don't have to out run the bear when it comes after you, you out run your buddy! :grin:

 

[tg]

"I have taken a Brown with the .50 Encore, 4X Leupold scope, 405 gr. P'Belt and 130 gr. Pyrodex RS."

A good hunt, no insult intended but how does that differ from a large bore single shot cartridge gun?

 

[Zonie]

Remembering the Forum Rules, let's not get into discussing modern, non-traditional firearms or their use.
zonie

 

[tg]

"Remembering the Forum Rules, let's not get into discussing modern, non-traditional firearms or their use.'

Yeah, that is getting a little hard to sort out around hear at times anymore...

 

My point exactly. That is the reason that I am going to a Hawken. I want to hunt with a traditional arm. However, I feel that a conical, or any derivitive of one is also traditional. Hence, what does everyone seem to have against conicals in general or Powerbelts in particular. I consider myself to be an experienced big game hunter, and I will not let "Tradition" influence my decisions as to a proper hunting tool. And, that's all it really is, a tool.
If I had realized I would cause people to be offended by the mere mention of an Encore, I would never have done so. It was just to make a point.
Again, it is plain to see that we have agreed to disagree.
Let me close by saying that if it ever comes to my having to make a choice between what I believe to be right and "tradition", I'll stick with what I believe.

 

[tg]

" I feel that a conical, or any derivitive of one is also traditional."

The same could be said of any gun that loads from the front....that is what draws the line in the sand so to speak,using traditional gear or calling anything traditional by loose association and general terminology. good luck on whatever path you choose..this thread has gone to far into the realm of that of which we do not speak so I will sign off.

 

"far into the realm of that of which we do not speak so I will sign off".
At this point, I also will sign out of this thread.
However,I leave you with one question.
Had the technology been far enough advanced, what would Boone, Johnson, Lewis, Clark et al have used? I think they would have carried the most effective weapon they could lay their hands on. Do you think "Tradition", or practicality would have influenced their decision?
Thank you to all

 

[Rebel]

That is the old standby question. The answer is, It wasn't so they didn't and that is why the traditionalists don't.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Heck, why waste your time loading power belts. Get ya a 30-30. They load real fast.

Nothing goes down the bores of my Muzzle loaders except what the old timers intended when they developed these old charcoal burners. PRB's have proven fatal on anything I have shot at over the years. If ya can't kill it with a PRB then you best not shoot at it. Run!!! :grin:

What he said. And that is why I love it here. We all come back to a love of traditional muzzleloading even if we have some different approaches. :hatsoff:

I thought my wife was doing all right getting 52 mpg with her diesel Jetta. But when I put diesel in my 1.8T gas Jetta it ran crappy. Guess diesel ain't for me.

You'd like round balls better if you tried a round ball rifle. I can go 10 plus shots without cleaning in between (and that's with the two T/C rifles I own as well). One shot has been sufficient so far for hunting (knock wood) and accepting the challenge of a primitive weapon means you either have to get good at it or get closer. That's why they call it a challenge. :hmm:

I like recure bows, cedar arrows and field sharpened two-edges 1930's style broadheads, too. Just means them 80 yard glow-in-the-dark lazer range finder 17th pin down hold-it-full-draw-for-two-minutes-at-85%-letoff-while-he-finishes-at-the-salt-block shots don't happen with my hunts.

 

[Snakebite]

"You'd like round balls better if you tried a round ball rifle. I can go 10 plus shots without cleaning in between (and that's with the two T/C rifles I own as well). One shot has been sufficient so far for hunting (knock wood) and accepting the challenge of a primitive weapon means you either have to get good at it or get closer. That's why they call it a challenge." :hmm:

"I like recure bows, cedar arrows and field sharpened two-edges 1930's style broadheads, too. Just means them 80 yard glow-in-the-dark lazer range finder 17th pin down hold-it-full-draw-for-two-minutes-at-85%-letoff-while-he-finishes-at-the-salt-block shots don't happen with my hunts." [/quote]

Stumpy, you da man! I tried a friend's longbow, that was fun. I had an old compound a guy gave me, I shot it a couple of times then went back to my recurve.
Round balls, blackpowder, tradition. That's what makes muzzleloading fun for me. Hey, if Travis would have had a couple Ma-duces at the Alamo, we'd have sent ole Santy Anney and his boys home in a real hurry. Tradition is about what they had and did, not about what they would have done if...

 

[Runner]

What everyone has against conicals is that for the most part they did not exist in the traditional time period except in some experiments going on in Europe. No one in the new land had acess to them at all. They are not a traditional item.
Powderpuffs have plastic skirts on them and are sold to rip off newcomers to the sport. There was no plastic in the traditional period. The abominations, the underhammers, and all the modern crud keep trying to force themselves into the traditional areas, and most folks are sick of it. That is why their mention here causes problems. It is like talking about fuel injection with a bunch of model T enthusiasts. It is beyond annoying!