Flash Pan Safety

[mmahlock]

It might be of interest that the State of Washington has ordained that a fintlock weapon that has a main powder charge in the breach with a ball seated on top of the powder and has not been purposely primed is not loaded. Locally we have had some very spirited discussions regarding the stupidity of the state idiot that came up with that definition. BTW a caplock is also classified as unloaded if in the same condition and no cap is on the nipple.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Yes Maryland does the same thing, but it was to thwart untrained LEO's from charging the hunter on his way home with a loaded but unprimed flinter or loaded and unprimed caplock from possession of a deadly and dangerous device, OR in the case of an inline possession of a loaded firearm in a vehicle. So it's a legal definition, but folks often miss the nuance and talk about "well it's unloaded so it's safe".

My approach to safety is like crossing a busy highway...I look BOTH ways, ALL the time...not just one way or some of the time.

That's a great policy, but remember that you are looking both ways for plausible safety hazards... you don't check the sky for airplanes making an emergency landing on the same street while crossing that street do you? HEY it's a possible hazard, just not a very plausible one. :grin:

I keep the rifle or gun pointed in a safe direction, and use a hammer stall. No need to plug the touch hole with a wire that holds the pan slightly open allowing moisture in and powder out.

LD

 

[Rifleman1776]

That is a pretty common legal definition among most, if not all, states. It permits transportation without having to pull or fire the load.

 

[Billnpatti]

As I read over some of the comments on this thread, it never ceases to amaze me how many folks look for a reason not to do what is reasonable and prudent when it comes to safety on the range, on the job or wherever. I have read over all of the comments on this thread or comments made to me in my professional life and just wonder why someone argues with a reasonable and prudent safety practice with such arguments such as "It's never happened to me." or statements to that effect. Just stop and think, is it worth my life or that of another person for me not to take the little extra bit of time to make absolutely sure that your rifle is safe before putting it in the car or bringing it into the house, cabin or wherever. Can it be that much trouble for you to slip a leather cover over your frizzen even though you have never yet had a gun go off because you don't use a frizzen cover or because you have not removed the cap and put the rifle on half cock or made sure your pan is empty? It only takes a few seconds to make sure that you are sure that your rifle is safe before leaving the woods or range. Stop and think.....if it can happen, sooner or later it will happen. Just make sure that it doesn't happen to you. A reductio ad absurdum argument provides no safety.

 

[pargent]

Can you tell me step by step how you think that a flintlock in the following condition might dis charge ?
Loaded charge ,powder and ball
Hammer (frizzen)forward ,pan open and empty.
Cock forward (in the released position )
now please present your theory on how this gun might fire, stick to straight mechanical facts. :hmm: Keep in mind that I am not talking about keeping a loaded gun around in a vehicle or house ,so don't even bother to mention that senior.

 

[M. De Land]

You might want to actually try a soft wire pick left in the flash hole! If you had you would know it completely closes the hole, eliminates any powder getting loose,fire getting in, insures a clear flash channel and lowers the frizzen making it much less vulnerable to catching , bending or breaking off. Mike D.

 

[M. De Land]

Any source of fire or spark finding its way into a open flash hole can ignite the charge. It cannot happen when the hole is plugged with properly fit pick or plug of some kind.
Having a smoke while driving home and flicking the ash out the car window or vent. Ash ember flies to the back seat and happens to find it's way into the open flash hole.
Sparks from a camp fire at night drifting off and doing the same. Got plenty of holes in stuff over the years from this one.
Chances of occurrence, not likely but than manure happens all the time way out there in the probability ionosphere.
The open flash hole is no where near closed off with the hammer lowered or in any other position let alone with the frizzen open.Mike D.

 

[M. De Land]

Thought of another likely source of AD and that is from a fellow flint shooter next to you on the firing line that does not use a partition between his gun and you. I have had hot embers burn my face lots of times from this deal and they are shot straight out at you and could easily set of and open flash hole accidentally. MD

 

[pargent]

Do you not think that correct firearm handling and storage might be the first things to consider in your posted answer .

 

[sarcasmn]

Well I have found this discussion informative. I am new to flintlocks and plan to go on my first flintlock hunt in a couple of weeks. I was curious as to popper gun handling when hunting with a flint. During transport to and from it seems that lock down and pan open with a frizzen stall in place and maybe a turkey feather plugging the flash hole seems to make sense. Once in the woods I think pan charged with lock on half cock and frizzen stall in place makes the most sense.

As always I am indebted to the members of this forum for the knowledge I have gained.

 

[M. De Land]

Yes, absolutely, but I'm talking about things beyond standard safety handling etiquette that are often overlooked and the false sense of security that leads to accidents, they can invite. MD

 

[pargent]

Well I suppose that I should be safe then .
Don't hang out with unco's
Don't keep a loaded m/l in camp ,or in my car , or in my house.
Always unload all of my firearms when I have finished shooting them .And so does everyone else
All newbes on the range are at all times under one on one supervision
Unco's are advised to pack their gear and depart for home asap .
I also use the correct powder in my flinters ie. one that won't flow through my guns touch hole

 

[pargent]

Sounds to me that one could find plenty of employment over there as an instructer, but alas after one class no one would show up

 

[Loyalist Dave]

You might want to actually try a soft wire pick left in the flash hole! If you had you would know it completely closes the hole, eliminates any powder getting loose,fire getting in, insures a clear flash channel and lowers the frizzen making it much less vulnerable to catching , bending or breaking off

So you have this bit of wire holding the frizzen slightly open, allowing moisture in, and or the priming powder out? OR are you using a piece of wire that is so small that it fits inside the pan, requiring you to remove the wire by opening the pan to the elements, removing the wire, then closing the pan, and then trying to shoot the deer?

The objective is to prevent a spark.... from firing the gun, and as a hammerstall entirely prevents the spark, the wire would be superfluous. If you are arguing secondary spark sources, a closed pan is safer than one with a piece of wire propping it open a fraction of an inch.

LD

 

[M. De Land]

No prime until ready to shoot. Am speaking of safety of a loaded weapon while carrying,in a stand or while in transit not practicality and speed while hunting. Two different scenarios in my mind.

 

[StewartLeach]

Thank You, Roundball! Great idea, I'll add it to the bit of tape I put over the muzzle to keep the snowflakes and pine needles out!

White Fox

 

[Billnpatti]

Any spark from any source is sufficient to cause an unintended ignition of the charge in the barrel of a flintlock providing the touch hole is not plugged. Such a spark could come from the cigarette of someone walking up with a lit cigarette to the flash from a flintlock shooter next to you to a spark from a campfire. These things may seem remote to you but like I said in my previous post, if it can happen, sooner or later, it will happen. Rather than saying that none of these things can ever happen to you, you should be asking how you can make sure that they don't. If the suggested safety practices seem excessive to you and you choose to ignore them, all I can say is I hope your luck holds and the odds work out in your favor and you don't become one of those statistics we read about.

 

[54ball]

Flash Pan Safety
Rule #1
Never check to see if the vent hole is clear with a Bick lighter.
# 2
Refrain from carrying a loaded flintlock with the pan open pan through a welding shop.
#3
Do not hold a loaded flintlock with a open pan, under the center field light pole, when Robert Redford is at bat.
#4
Do not hunt with a flintlock on an active volcano.
#5
Stay away from Jr's Sparkler on New years or the 4th of July.
#6
Be sure to keep the pan closed while in a burning building.
#7
Nerf, without a doubt it is the safest material for a flintlock frizzen.
#8
Despite the temptation, never launch a model rocket out of the muzzle of a loaded flintlock.
#9
Do not use a frizzen stall made out of an old file.
#10
It's almost never a good idea to use a loaded flintlock's barrel as a conductor between two sets of jumper cables. If this must be done try to avoid the lock area.

 

[pargent]

Always have safety in my mind , and when others are around , this is why we have rules and standing orders concerning the use and storeage of firearms on ranges in camp , their use in matches and in the field and for historical display etc. By eliminating the dangers in a sane and logical manner the sport remains a safe pastime without the use of headless chooks running around . Take the time and read my other reply again , unsafe use of firearms is seriously delt with by our sporting bodies and the safe handling and use of firearms is actually a legal requirement for ownership .

 

[pargent]

Some you missed !
Do not store your loaded c/b revolver in the oven.
Make sure the gun is unloaded when burning faux tiger strips on the stock
Do not dry your loaded revolver in a microwave
Do not shower with a loaded gun ,even in a hunting camp