Flash Pan Safety

[Many Klatch]

Just thought I ought to toss in this observation about loaded guns with empty flash pans.

A few years ago my club did a test to see how often a flinter would go off when the hammer was dropped on an empty pan. 10 of us put blank charges down our barrels. We pulled the frizzen closed, went to full cock,pointed the muzzles in the air and on the command we all pulled the trigger.

Much to our surprise one of the 10 guns went off. :shocked2: :shocked2: We did this three times. Each time at least one gun went off. So in my limited experience, it seems that the odds of a flinter going off with an empty pan is about one in every 10 tries.

Yet another reason to always keep the muzzles pointed down range.

The next time you are out with a bunch of buddies, try this experiment.

Many Klatch

 

[Billnpatti]

Thank you for your input. I am a bit surprised that it was not higher than 1 in 10. As you say, safety first, keep those muzzles pointed down range when your gun is loaded 'cuz ya just never know.

 

[Alden]

Interesting.

"Pointed in the air." How much? Was powder dribbling into the pan or sparks just making their way into the touchole do you think.

 

[excess650]

With a moderate to largish sized touch hole, I could forsee powder being pushed into the pan while the gun was being loaded, and particularly with the pan closed.

My own practice is to put a round toothpick into the touch hole so as to block it, and also to remind me that the gun is loaded.

 

[Wes/Tex]

I've heard of this before, it happened once or twice at the old muzzleloading club I went to in Houston years back and is one of the things that has led range officers from the 'as long as it's safe' to 'never, and I mean NEVER'. I'll admit to dropping the flint on a loaded gun with an empty pan before but it was only to check the spark...maybe I was just lucky while doing a stupid thing. Certainly not the first time I've tempted fate! :idunno:

To excess650:
Sometimes this was done deliberately. Frederick II, called 'The Great', of Prussia was one of the leaders of using touch holes coned from the inside and slightly over-sized to eliminate the 'priming' step in the reloading drill for his troops. Perhaps this is practical to get that last little speed advantage in a linear warfare system but I see more disadvantages in a large, leaky touch hole for modern shooters. Just one schlepp's opinion! :wink:

 

[nchawkeye]

Yep, I've seen it before, we discussed this awhile back...Good reminder though..

 

[Rifleman1776]

Not an unusual occurance. Especially with a good lock and, more especially with an inside coned touch hole liner.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Oh, Yeah,...sometimes those little 'sparky' things really bounce into odd and interesting places! :wink: :haha:

 

[StewartLeach]

Yep, there's a reason for loading with cock forward and frizzen open, and walking to firing line with muzzle above your head.

White Fox

 

[mike garner]

thank's for the post i did not know.

 

[TGJaeger]

My own practice is to put a round toothpick into the touch hole so as to block it, and also to remind me that the gun is loaded.

+1
I either use a toothpick or a feather. The feather is a lot easier to see than the toothpick and I think it is less likely to snap off like the toothpick. I wouldn't consider not putting something in the flash hole when the gun is in camp or in transit to another hunting area.

 

[B.Habermehl]

I slightly disagree with your statistics? :wink: In testing with one of my own rifles. I had closer to a one in five chance of the gun firing with no priming in the pan. I am a firm believer in hammer stalls. Plus tooth pics. BJH

 

[Many Klatch]

Most of us pointed our guns at about a 45 degree angle. None of us used the ramrod to pack the powder tightly. This experiment was done with clean guns for the first attempt.

Many Klatch

 

[Birddog6]

I have tried that several times for Demo.... mine usually fire on the 3rd or 4th try. Had one fire on the First try ! Scared the manure out of me as I was not expecting it ! :rotf: :rotf:

That being said, something else to bring up in flashpan safety.

Never... :shake: and I mean Never ... knap a flint in the jaws of a loaded rifle. :shocked2: One spark off a flint in knapping it & ka-bang..... someone could end up hurt or dead.

Unload the rifle, or change the flint & knap that one later. DO NOT plug the touchhole & knap it..... Unload the rifle & then knap it.

Now some will say "Oh I always just plug the hole & knap it." What if you Forget ? Or what if someone watching you forgets ? Someone could get hurt.

Make a Safe Practice to unload the rifle or just change the flint & eliminate a hazzard.

Keith Lisle

 

[Rifleman1776]

I disagree.
Keeping the muzzle in a safe direction at all times is the key to safety.
I use a small brass hammer to knap.
I never say never :wink: but I have never produced sparks while knapping. However, if that one in a zillion event should happen, keeping the muzzle in a safe direction is the way to prevent injury to others.

 

[Billnpatti]

What I see here as I read the responses is some differing opinions on just how to be safe with a flintlock rifle. But the very encouraging thing is that there is a thread here of agreement among all of us and that is to be aware of the potential hazards and handle the gun such that the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction at all times. I am very glad to see this thread of gun safety agreement even if we have differing ideas on exactly how to achieve it. :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

[hanshi]

All my rifles have a touch hole of 1/16". I tried an experiment with my .45 a couple years ago and was a bit surprised at the results. The bore was loaded with a standard load but without priming the pan. I shook the rifle a few times to replicate a trip through the woods. The rifle fired at least twice out of five tries.

There are enough "fines" in powder to have a little flow into the pan. It may not even be enough to notice without a close look but it can easily be enough to fire the rifle. Lesson learned.

 

[Many Klatch]

Well, I haven't had any problems with knapping my flint. I dump the pan and then use the back of my patch knife to knock chunks off the edge. In 30 years doing this I have never had one go off. However the gun is always pointed downrange and my fingers are clear of the pan.

Many Klatch

 

[Birddog6]

That may be fine for you & a brass hammer or rod, but What IF the guy watching you uses a piece of steel or the back of his knife or whatever ? He may not realize you used a piece of brass. :idunno:

Is it safer to just change the flint ? or have someone have an accident ? thinking they mimicked you ?

I have seen allot of people do things they should not have done in the past 40 yrs of ML'ing, and they got by with it.

That doesn't mean it was Safe, it simply means they got by with it.

Keith Lisle

 

[Coot]

I agree. Accidents are always waiting to happen. While keeping the muzzle always pointed in a safe direction is primary, Range Officers frequently get upset when there is an accidental discharge (even if no hole is put in the line roof).