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Military Heritage India-made Fusil de Chasse
- Thread starter wiscoaster
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Of the importers Loyalist and Veteran get their guns from a better builder in India. Yes, there is such a thing. I like veteran as they are a Domestic company. Domestic are built better BUT if you want a period correct piece domestic locks are too modern. The piece in question uses an earlier unbridled frizzen that is low and wide. You can't get the correct shape with off the shelf domestic. I don't consider the rifle shoppe in the conversation as their locks are unassembled parts sets now. It is true the wood is poor but overall the imports have very little competition when you are looking at earlier weaponry. Regarding performance of the locks they can be tweaked to work, tuned to work well, or gone nuts with to try to make excellent. I know veteran ships out their guns in working order, you can also request undrilled.
I watched a few more videos featuring the India-made guns, and I think at this point I've decided to avoid them. Mainly because of the crappy stock wood and finish. I think that alone would really turn me off. If I have to wait a couple months to spend the extra money on a Pedersoli, then so be it.
I've made many, India Guns, shootable from Military Heritage. They are the same guns as Loyalist, Veteran, Middlesex Village or any other India Guns dealer. MH's aren't vented. That's why the others are $200.00 to $300.00 more. They are vented. India Guns get a bad rap. I have several I shoot regularly. They are good guns. Semper Fi.
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I have managed to clean my several M H smoothbores with no issues even after removing the breech plug and making the vent more accessible after I drilled it.
I did do several tasks that improved my gun each time and gave me enjoyment while doing them. None of them were beyond the ability of anyone able to do tasks using hand tools.
LBL
I did do several tasks that improved my gun each time and gave me enjoyment while doing them. None of them were beyond the ability of anyone able to do tasks using hand tools.
LBL
The quality on the India made guns are "hit and miss" and the buyer's acceptable level of quality is subjective to his/her standards and the price that they paid for the gun - simple fact. The middleman that sells them know that less than 1/4 percent of the rifles they sell will be returned because of quality issues because of the high return cost. I'm not saying that those rifles are terrible but if you are looking for a totally reliable shooter they are not it WITHOUT some extensive rework to them. If you have the time and skill to rework them then that is a plus for you and a savings in your wallet. Just be aware that there are some major issues with some (MOST) of them. Some people are expecting a Chambers built rifle for their $600 and end up with a CVA kit gun - just saying
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Here are some parts that I made for an India made Brown Bess and would call this EXTENSIVE rework work - you may not but I do. If you indeed worked on HUNDREDS of these India made muskets and did not run into this kind of rework, then you are indeed BLESSED - consider yourself very LUCKY
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So you consider the common loose tumblers to be a major issue. . .I totally understand how making it tight is extensive work.View attachment 266354
Here are some parts that I made for an India made Brown Bess and would call this EXTENSIVE rework work - you may not but I do. If you indeed worked on HUNDREDS of these India made muskets and did not run into this kind of rework, then you are indeed BLESSED - consider yourself very LUCKY
However, the locks still work with the tumblers as they are and can be made quite reliable as is and therefore must disagree that it is a major problem. Take the bridle and main spring off nearly every domestic lock and you will find wobble. Regarding the work you did, I would say without adding a bearing surface to the lock plate it will wear to a wobble.
Have you considered building a kit FdC ?
Yes.
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I bought a Doglock from Military Heritage.
I had the same issues with the lock as ZUG- the lockplate, tumbler and bridle were drilled approx 5 degrees off of 90 degree square. The cock would run out of energy by the time it hit the frizzen, which wouldn’t move let alone open.
Many hours later it sparks well. I also had to notch the breechplug to use a White Lightning liner.
The stock is overweight and the finish pretty ugly but I must admit, it’s fun to shoot and points and aims much better than a New In Box Pedersoli Bess I just acquired.
Recently Track had a Doglock built decades ago by the owner of The Rifle Shoppe- it was a Beauty and sold fast for over 4600 but I didn’t want to wait the year (or 2 or 3) to get the parts.
So I went Indian… I think I’ll stay with domestic products.
I had the same issues with the lock as ZUG- the lockplate, tumbler and bridle were drilled approx 5 degrees off of 90 degree square. The cock would run out of energy by the time it hit the frizzen, which wouldn’t move let alone open.
Many hours later it sparks well. I also had to notch the breechplug to use a White Lightning liner.
The stock is overweight and the finish pretty ugly but I must admit, it’s fun to shoot and points and aims much better than a New In Box Pedersoli Bess I just acquired.
Recently Track had a Doglock built decades ago by the owner of The Rifle Shoppe- it was a Beauty and sold fast for over 4600 but I didn’t want to wait the year (or 2 or 3) to get the parts.
So I went Indian… I think I’ll stay with domestic products.
No truer words ever written on here ... period!
FWIW, I have the VA British 2-1/2" bore hand mortar and 75-cal brass barreled blunderbuss, paying ~$500 each for them, where built TRS kits would be 4X the price! Zero issues and 100% shootable!
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If you were really committed to excellence you would have installed ceramic tumbler bearings and a depleted uranium frizzen shoe
I was involved heavily in the wiring layout of Unity as part of my first gig out of college and worked with plenty of talented eggheads from across the globe. One thing they all had in common was they had nothing in common with me, so I became a mechanic and have spent my career since fixing engineering problems in the field since there was no way to bring common sense to the engineers at the drawing board.
There are locks that work and locks that are works of art. Having one or the other is a choice dependent on your desires, wallet, your skills/tooling, and your realistic needs.
India guns aren't bad, yes a bit clunky. If you buy one, send the lock to Jeff Miller/Flintlock forge. He will improve it greatly.
Nit Wit
Nit Wit
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nope.
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OK -- here we go: I recently purchased a Brown Bess and a Charleville from Military Heritage because of the price and that I only wanted a "wall hanger" but when I got them the locks were so bad that I had to re-make most of the parts and screws to make it work somewhat like it should. It took me about 30 hours to make parts for the Brown Bess and I am still working on the Charleville. At $50/hr labor I could have purchased a GOOD musket If I wanted a shooter. The flash hole is not drilled, and you have to un-breach the barrel to do a proper job of drilling the touch hole. The barrel is threaded deeper than the breach plug by about 1/2"+ and this will prevent you from doing a good cleaning of the breach area. Your cleaning patch will get stuck on the exposed extra threads. This area will capture, and hold burnt powder and eventually cause rust to form. Maybe some of the other India importers have better guns - but I don't think so. Save your money and buy something GOOD you would be better off and not regret it. My opinion is to keep looking for something better.
View attachment 266034View attachment 266035
Zug is 100% correct
They come with a massive amount of work right out of the box.
Especially if you’re wanting this to be your so called ‘target gun’ that would indicate a gun of superior quality, this would not be a good choice.
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They’re bad.
But if you must, i would want to pick from the rack, and not take my chances with an order.
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The woodworking can absolutely be refinished by an amateur. The lock tuning is better left to someone more knowledgeable. I typically charge 50-200 depending on which it is and level desired. Some of the more problematic are the Murdoch's but they can be tweaked to work as seen below without powder. Oh and yes the tumbler is wobbly on this one as well, not something I consider a major issue.
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