Your fixes for 32 cal Crockett????

[hithard]

Russ, Let's not insinuate I would put a problematic gun in anyone's hand, let alone an eleven year olds. Please re-read my post's and you will see that I make no mention of having a gun with a problem. Keep your powder dry pilgrim!

Once again, seek out knowledge or someone that does in order to properly diagnose the problem. Lassen College might be a good start, but that's just my opinion. They offer a series of classes that are a week long. So the average guy can afford to enroll. Not to mention that there is some real nice country to see within a few minutes drive.Which might help you all turn this into a family vacation. Well that might be stretching it, but you can always try.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Actually my take is what the heck do you expect for the price you pay for one of these. We have a supply and demand type economy here, even if it is Kalifornia. Ya get what you pay for.If ya don't like it don't buy it, save up. The gun does not leak,so no worries there, and if you know where your patch is hanging up you'll know what the problem is, I do. A couple of years at Lassen College in the smith program helped form that opinion.So no problem. As for my age, well it's not relevant. As for afford, I'm not put'n a 1k gun in my 11yr olds hands to go beat'n around the ranch with.

As you'll notice I have not made statements about anyone here in any reguards, unlike you. So please re-think your maturity statements.

If I'm guilty of anything it's not telling the original poster to either return the gun or take it to a qualified smithy. But those are obvious choices.

Your opinion may differ, and I do respect that. Keep your powder dry Pilgrim.

You say that you know where the patch hangs up which indicates that you own one of these guns. Then you say that you aren't going to put a thousand dollar gun in your 11 year old's hands. I think most anyone would figure from that that the boy is using this gun. Apparently you are are using it and your 11 year old has been given a flawlessly performing but inexpensive rifle to use as his own. I apologise for my assumption and applaud your altruism. You are a good daddy! :v

 

[hithard]

Russ, relax, I applaud your concern for my eleven year old. Re-read the post. See where it says Lassen College and smithy. That means I've been to school, a place of higher education or learning, this is where I became aware of how to properly fix things that are not right.

As for your other opinions, well, based upon your prior observations. I'm gonna have to disagree with you. So keep your powder dry pilgrim, your gonna need to for all the shot's you keep taking!

I will say this though, in a shoot out between the dude with the fancy shootin' iron and the kid with the beater. My money is on the kid.

Now go knock some of that rust off, and go shootn' ! you need the practice, cause the shot's your taken here are way out of your range.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Talking to you is like having a conversation with our former President Clinton. You make a statement and I respond you wiggle and squirm and say you didn't say it. You did. This quickly becomes tedious, especially when the subject is a certain brand of firearm and the quality and safety issues people have associated with it. You throw around the name of a school like a sledge hammer and imply that it has equipped you to do most any thing yet you apparently haven't fixed the gun yet. Perhaps a refresher course is a good idea. In any case, we're done. I hereby bestow upon you the "Slick Willy of 2009" award and pray you wear it in good health. No need to respond as I'm going to be doing some 600 yard shooting with my Parker-Hale Enfield and won't have time for your little game of intellectual dodgeball. Bye. :v

 

[renovato]

I don't own a Crockett but as I understand the problem it is that the breech plug is short.

Because it is short, the plug stops on the rear face of the barrel leaving a gap between the end of the rifling and the face of the breech plug.

Exactly. It's that gap that is snagging patches, not the drum in most cases. While it's not immediately dangerous, it is a place that can't be cleaned properly and corrosion can start in that gap. Corrosion in the breech can become a serious matter over time.

The sad part is that Traditions has admitted to this problem years back, yet hasn't solved it. It just can't be that hard to adjust the machining settings to correct the problem. My guess is that they have a surplus of old breechplugs or barrels that they're trying to use up first.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Its actually and even worse problem, as it is behind the end of the rifling, and exposes the breech plug threads to the pressure of the Chamber when the gun is fired. This pressure is forcing CRUD into the threads, where its impossible to clean out.

Corrosion slowly destroys the threads, both on the plug, and in the barrel. It may not blow out in 5 years, but given the length of life original guns have, this gun will, withing 20-50 years blow out the back end of the barrel. That is going to destroy the stock at the lock mortise, and endanger the shooters hands and face.

I had this happen on a Semi-custom made rifle, where the builder didn't know- or care--- to mate the front of the plug to the back of the rifling.

About 2 years after I received the gun, I decided to convert it from Percussion to Flintlock. The man who did the conversion for me removed the breech plug, and found the problem.

It explained why my cleaning patches never came out clean, no matter how many I used, how much solvent I used, no matter how long I soaked the barrel. Even in that short amount of time there was substantial rust on the threads of both the barrel and the plug.

He replaced the plug with a new one, and cut a spacer to fill the distance between the face of the plug and the back of the rifling/bore. The threads in the barrel were thoroughly cleaned, dressed up with a tap, and greased before the plug was re-installed in the barrel. He solved the problem for me.

There really is no good reason for Traditions to not have this chronic problem fixed where the barrels are made.

I also would rather see a squared, flat face breech plug face in their flintlocks, than a "patent " breech" actually designed to use with their percussion locks. The flash channel is too long, and too narrow to allow quick ignition of the powder.

The narrow channel often has casting debris in it, or is easily clogged up, with oil, grease, and debris.

I have loaned out a lot of pipe cleaners to shooters on the ranges shooting flintlocks with this kind of breech system. And, a few of the percussion shooters have also hit me up for a pipe cleaner or two at the range when they failed to flush the action and barrel out with alcohol before beginning to shoot.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Traditions apparently doesn't want owners of its' products to disassemble the guns and find these problems for themselves since they void the warranty if the breech plug is removed. And they are too cheap to produce a properly machined and fitted breech plug that would solve the problem.

Since a large portion of the buyers of these guns are likely to be first time buyers, I wonder how many become frustrated with these problems and give up on them and muzzleloading in general. It is shameful that this outfit cares only about profits and not about the sport of muzzleloading. It is also surprising that so many owners are willing to ignore the now well known problem areas and continue to recommend these things to other shooters without pointing out these negatives. Hard to understand... :hmm:

 

[hithard]

Yes, that can be one problem, but you can also have the reverse. Where the plug is a might to long and a little to much force and the end of the plug is bottomed out compressed. In all seriousness they both pose problems. but in the long run I would say you have way more chance of a nipple or drum blowing out before either one of these scenarios is going to cause a major failure. And even in the most expensive guns if the breech and barrel bore fit are polished to prevent a snag there can still be a small void between them that you'll never know is there, and leave you with the same issue. the only real way to tell is to run a scope done the bore and look see for yourself.

 

[Rat Trapper]

Just too many problems with products from this company. They do not care about their customers and we should not buy their products until they fix the known problems. Anyone here who has a problem should box it up and return it. Once they start getting enough returns they will have to fix things. The customers are partly to blame because many are too lazy to return junk they have purchased with hard earned money.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

It's really a shame that the Spanish have become known for low end muzzleloaders, when they are capable of building such lovely and high quality guns when they want to. Their breech loading shotguns are proof enough of this.

 

[JPShelton]

It's really a shame that the Spanish have become known for low end muzzleloaders, when they are capable of building such lovely and high quality guns when they want to. Their breech loading shotguns are proof enough of this.

Some of their breechloading doubles aren't too impressive, either.

-JP
I hunted upland for 25 years with a Parker Hale (Ugartechea Model 30) that functioned fine and had correctly regulated barrels but very sloppy wood to metal fit, poorly executed checkering, and other cosmetic issues. The same gun today fetches about 1,700 bucks. No way would I pay even half that for the one that I owned.

On the other hand, a buddy of mine had a CVA caplock that was a nice rifle by any standard and seemed to be a bit higher in build quality than my own cherished Lyman GPR, which is saying something since my GPR leaves little to complain about. That CVA (+30" bbl, double wedge key, pewter cap)was also VERY accurate.

So yeah, it seems that good muzzleloaders can come out of Spain.

I think the issue isn't country of origin as much as the motivation of the importer / marketer, actual mfg'r, and workers building it to get whatever "it" is right.

Where this Crockett rifle is concerned, that motivation seems lacking.

That's a shame because I'd like to have a smallbore halfstock / caplock squirrel rifle, but wouldn't like paying custom rifle prices to get one.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

That's why I was careful to use words like "capable of" and "when they want to". But something else comes into play here: the importer who demands a product that he can retail for a certain price point and make a quick buck on. This invariably means a gun built down to a price. It's one way to to turn a "silk purse into a sow's ear" very quickly. Then there is the customer who buys by price alone--he is this seller's prey of choice and like a moth is drawn to a flame, is incapable of fleeing.

 

[hanshi]

For a long, long time the Spanish have been bi-polar with their quality control. Their prewar and postwar autos, for instance, could be good to excellent or junk. You just had to know when to get one. I've seen some that were superb in quality while others wouldn't even fire without help.

That being said I've had very good service from my Crockett. Even cleaning the patent breech has never been a problem. I've had mine for a long time, though, if that makes a difference. Quality and accuracy seem top notch considering what I paid for it. I guess it's more than doubled in price since then.

 

[JPShelton]

Then there is the customer who buys by price alone--he is this seller's prey of choice and like a moth is drawn to a flame, is incapable of fleeing.

Throughout the whole of my adult working life, I've never really had "instant gratification" where firearms purchases were concerned. I could have "instant" or "gratification" but generally couldn't get them both at that same time.

Thanks to Dr. Robert Beeman, I learned to forgo "instant" for "gratification" as I drooled upon the pages of the Beeman Precision Airgun Catalog. Within those pages were some of the most expensive airguns that money could buy, and Dr. Beeman didn't bother apologizing for that. What he did do was attempt to educating the customer into shopping quality, features, advantages, and benefits over price alone.

As a teen, I wanted a Beeman/FWB 124 in the worst way, and by the time I saved up enough money to buy one, it had been discontinued. I bought a then new to market .20 R-1, instead.

Beeman promised me that quality would pay off in the long run through increased pride of ownership, accuracy, durability, and resale value. He was right.

Even with airguns, the cost of hardware isn't where my shooting hobby money really goes. It goes out the bore in the form of the lead that I send downrange. I spend close to $500.00 a year on airgun pellets. Over the nearly 25 years that I had my R-1, that's $17,500 on just the ammo to shoot it. And that's a pellet rifle! The $250.00 original cost was only paid once, and I got it back and then some when I sold the rifle.

When I decided to get into muzzleloading rifles, I couldn't immediately afford a T/C Hawken or the Lyman GPR that I wound up with. I had to save up a bit to get one or the other. The GPR was well woth the wait and sacrafices taken to obtain it.

As with my air rifle example, I've spent far more money on shooting the GPR over time than its purchase price.

I'd personally rather have one really good firearm than a cabinet full of second-rate production and I do not believe in the false economy of cheap.

That said, I still wish there was a respectable smallbore traditional M/L offered as a prodction rifle because I'be buy one soon, if there were.

-JP