Yet Another Question - Cleaning Process

[NoJacketRequired]

Hi Folks,

Yes, I've got yet another question. It appears as though I haven't yet mastered the fine art of cleaning and preserving my sidelock rifles. I say this because my first shot of the day normally has a different point of impact than where the rifle was sighted the last time I shot it. I suspect this is because I'm not properly lubing it when I store it. I'm particularly concerned about this for hunting as I don't want to have to fire a fouling shot every morning. I gotta be doing something wrong. :redface:

Would you please be kind and patient and share with me your technique for putting your gun away at night so it'll be ready to go a'huntin' the next day?

Also - one other question... For those that use patches and solvent solutions to clean the bore, rather than the "dunk it in a bucket of hot water" technique, how do you ensure the ignition path from nipple to breach is clean and won't corrode?

Thanks for your help!

BTW - the rifles are Traditions Hawken and T/C Renegade in .50, shooting either BP or Triple7. The Traditions rifle will be shooting PRB, while the Renegade will likely end up shooting conicals.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Check out the links in the "Forum/Muzzleloading Links/Techniques and Proceedures" section. There are a half-dozen links to cleaning front-stuffers.

As far as pre-hunt lubing. I use that good ol' (everyone roll their eyes) Natural Lube 1000 Plus. Before a hunt I lube a patch and snag one corner under the screw-in jag, fold it back over the top and then wipe the bore to add a thin layer of lube. I have no idea if it really seasons a bore, and I don't care, because it does well as a lube and truly does not requite wiping between shots. For rust prevention when storing I use Lehigh Lube, but still do the above before I load the rifle for the first shot. Before I load a ball in a cap-lock I pop two primers to make sure the channel isn't plugged.

I am a 'bucket-o-hot-water' type, but in the past I would pull the nipple and squirt #13 solvent into the hole and poke around with a Q-tip and toothpick to dig out fouling and get all the crannies soaked well. You could also use a tube cleaner attached at the nipple threads and the hot, soapy water wooshing through will wash away the blackpowder fouling completely. I have never used a non-blackpowder propellant so I'll defer to anyone who has for any techniques that fouling requires.

Something else to worry about. If your first shot is consistantly very different from the second it could be a bedding problem - the cold barrel has significantly different stock pressures than the cold one.

Try this. Take the first shot of the day. Let the gun sit in the shade for ten minutes and then load it as normal again and shoot a second shot at the target. If they are together, it's not your pre-hunt lubing and it could be the bedding. If a fast third shot is away from the other two, it's more than likely the bedding.

 

[buckknife]

While we are on the subject of cleaning i thought id throw this out there,real bp will clean up with water,777 and pyrodex look like they do but there is potassuim perchlorate in the fouling that is not totally water soulable.Acording to sum who actually know about such things they say it sould be cleaned with more than water with a good solvent to get this perchlorate out of the bore or it will cause deep pitting rust in time.777 is not thought to have as much as this stuff in it as pyrodex but it is there.Look on the hodgen web site at the MSDS of pyrodex and 777 and you will see it is in it,also that it is not totally water solubale.Nuther good reason to stick with the real black :shocking: ::

 

Stumpkiller.....I'm sold on Bore Butter...and not just for mu muzzleloaders either. I use it in my BPCR rifles too.

Nojacket....I don't know if I really have anything to offer you as I'm the boiling water kind too. Anyway, here's what I do. If I'm hunting for a few days I simply don't clean after my fouling shot. With bore butter I've not had any corrosion problems for a few days without cleaning while hunting. I do fire off the shot at the end of the day then just wipe the bore and reload fresh the next morning. I do have that quirk about a fresh load....I've never had a misfire from doing that......but what's the old saying, "never say never"? You'll figure out something that works for you.

Vic

 

[cayugad]

I personally feel bore butter is a great patch and conical lube for those that want to use it. I do not. Only because I make my own lube for conicals and moose milk for the patch and ball. I am not one that seasons their barrel.

It is a matter of personal choice whether someone wants to season the bore or not. I will season a cast iron fry pan, and leave it at that. I want my rifle barrel clean and oiled. Then before I load I run denatured alcohol patches through it, some dry patches, and load as usual. This takes any oil and grim out of the barrel. It works for me.

I have friends that use bore butter to season. In fact they take great pleasure putting a light coat of bore butter down their barrel in front of me at the hunting cabin, knowing I would never do such a thing. I do not think they have ever had a problem from their method, I on the other hand did.

To each their own.

 

[roundball]

Funny the different experiences we all have with different products...for example, I personally don't believe in the "seasoning" philosphy...I want everything and I mean everything out of my bores when I'm done shooting.

I soak then scrub clean my bores to the raw metal every time with hot water & dishwashing detergent, including a couple dozen strokes with a tight bore brush...I want nothing left in the barrel at all when I'm done...get it bone dry then lube it.

And since the late 80's, the only lube that's gone inside my bores has been liberal amounts of natural lube 1000 (bore butter) plus I use it in prelubed wonderwads and prelubed patches with every shot...bores are still like mirrors after years of shooting, cleaning, hunting, etc

 

[NoJacketRequired]

RB - If you bore butter your barrel after a full cleaning today, what do you do to make your first shot tomorrow morning hit the same point of impact as your last shot today? This is really the point of technique were I seem to be falling down as my first shot of the day will be at least six inches off the point of aim.

Thanks to all for your helpful comments!

 

[Stumpkiller]

. . . as my first shot of the day will be at least six inches off the point of aim.

At what distance? If you're off 6" at 50 yards it's not barrel cleanliness alone. What size balls and patch thickness are you using? I can shoot 25 balls, clean the gun overnight, and the next shot will be within 1" of the last shot at a 50 yd target.

The ugly solution would be to clean well between every shot.


OOh! OOh! What is your morning pre-shot procedure when you prepare the rifle for the day's shooting, and your loading ritual for that first charge? Do you swab the bore before loading in the morning? Residual oil will soak into the charge and contaminate a bunch of the powder - making it act like a 15 or 20% reduced charge.

 

[roundball]

When I finish cleaning & drying a barrel, I lube it very heavily with NL 1000...I literally use a popcicle stick to pack NL1000 into the first couple inches of grooves, than using a heavily lubed patch, I stroke the bore a few times, relube the patch (from a tube of NL1000) and stroke the bore some more until I'm satisfied every inch of the grooves are plastered.

Then, since TC barrels have patent breeches, there is a cone shaped chamber that runs from the front of the breechplug down to the vent (or nipple fire channel) area. To ensure this area gets lubed also, I use a cleaning rod with a small (ie: .30cal) brush on it to push a lubed patch down into this channel and rotate it around a couple times and slide it back out.

When I get ready to load for the range or for hunting, I just dry patch the bore a quick stroke down & up to pull out any excess NL1000, then load and fire as usual...first shot is always where it should be.

 

[NoJacketRequired]

RB, Stumpkiller...

I suspect I have been doing something drastically wrong in the past as I fired my rifle on Friday then left it 'til today with just a light coating of NL1000 (two lightly lubed patches run through the bore). When I fired it today I first ran 4 cleaning patches through it and it looked pretty clean. The first shot was in the ballpark (within a couple of inches at 50 yards), then the second was right on. This makes me think that I'm not letting the rifle cool enough between shots when I'm sighting in. And it makes me think that I was leaving too much goop in the barrel when I put it away overnight.

RB - I must be plain old thick in the head... :: When you use a 30cal brush to lube the nipple-to-breach connection, how do you get it in there - from the muzzle end? The mental picture I have would suggest a flexible brush would be better for bending into the cone-shaped vent chamber... Or have I completely missed the point?

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[roundball]

The patent breech has a cone shaped bottom to it...then on a flintlock, the vent hole is simply straight into the side of the cone at the[url] bottom...in[/url] a percussion, a small fire channel runs from the side/bottom of the cone to the nipple seat.

I was explaining that I use a small diameter brush on a regular rifle cleaning rod to push a patch straight down the bore into that tapered cone of the patent breech to try and soak up any moisture there.

For the fire channel on a percussion rifle, I use pipe cleaners...put a slight "c" shaped curve to one end and curl it down through the nipple seat and feed in on into the fire channel, twist them around a few times, etc.


PS: An additional thought about the cleaning process:
If you've ever wished you had just a little more justification to buy an air compressor, muzzleloaders will push you over the top...I already had one for using air tools in automotive work, and came to realize it's an invaluable tool for a muzzleloading hobby...cleaning and drying muzzleloaders, blowing out unfired loads after a days hunt, etc.
For example, when I pump flush a barrel in a bucket of hot water, I pull water up out of the muzzle and it drains back down all over the outside of the barrel...gets under the barrel rib, under the sights, in the tenons/dovetails, etc...an air compressor is invaluable in blowing water out of those areas (then blast WD40 into the cracks & crevices)

Start hinting around...Father's Day is coming! :winking:

 

Roundball, if you haven't tried Amsoil MP (metal protector) you should. It's a much better water displacer than WD40, although WD40 does do the job when I run out of MP.
Daryl

 

[NoJacketRequired]

Thanks, RB. Clear as mud now! :haha:

If I could get a pattern of that cone-shaped breach I'd be tempted to file a brass tip to fit and then be able to get "right to the bottom" using just one tool. Hmmm, somthing to think about anyway...

As for the air compressor, thankfully I already have one. I say thankfully because the first time I fired this rifle, well, let's just say it didn't fire. Dunno what kind of gunk the previous owner had let accumulate down there, but it sure was ugly. I cracked off a couple of caps as he'd instructed, then loaded it as he instructed. Then tried to fire it using 4 or 5 different caps. No go. Man, what an ugly introduction to muzzleloading!

Thank goodness I had the air compressor handy as I used it to blow the charge out the barrel. And at the same time it blew out that gunk that had completely clogged the fire channel. Now I know better and listen for that nice hollow sound that echoes down the barrel when you snap off a cap!

 

[roundball]

Yeah, and that really makes the point that when we buy used muzzleloaders, we really should actually assume they're loaded and start from there.
Then, once you're certain it's not loaded, drop it into a 5 gallon pail of steaming hot soapy water to soak for 30 minutes, then clean the devil out of it like it's never been cleaned in it's life...pump flush patches, bore brush heavily, more pump flushing, etc...you get the idea...satisfy yourself the bore is at the "raw metal" stage, and you'll have a known, good clean starting point established to build upon as you start using it;


Also, a simple tip I read somewhere:
Point the muzzle down at a few light blades of grass or a small scrap of paper when snapping a few caps...you'll actually see the items move from the pressure of even that little cap, and you'll know with certainty that the fire channel and bore are wide open.