Why such a to-do about antlers? You can't eat 'em.

[Treestalker]

Where I grew up in the swamp on S E Texas, the deer were so scarce (late '50's early '60's) that it was a fairly rare treat to see them. Most hunters went out to central and south Texas to hunt deer, and back in the bay galls back home it was hogs for supper. (Pork eaters?). When I moved to Arkansas 28 years ago, deer were everywhere, but many had small racks, forks and spikes, and many became heavy bodied with 'Teacup' racks. The Arkansas G&F Has done a hell of a job on improving the population, with the result that there are more well bodied bucks with good antlers and still tons of does. I never hunted for antlers, meat on the table for my family was provided by shooting anything legal. Last year our beloved Aussie drug up a deer skull with a nice 8 point rack on it. It is hanging on the front porch. I've killed perhaps 40 deer here on the place over the years and my biggest Buck was a forked horn with a big edible body attached. Good eating!

 

[Okie Hog]

By 1970 i had killed three white tail bucks that scored over 180 B&C. Later i stopped hunting bucks with huge antlers: Last deer with a really good rack was an 8 point taken in 2006.

Since 2000 i've passed on some awesome bucks. In deer gun season 2020 i passed on a great buck on my property. The tractor was not on the place and retrieval would have required the help of at least three others or a 4 wheeler . Besides i don't like the meat of a rutting buck.

Called a college classmate who is a dedicated bow hunter. She killed that buck and dragged it out with her 4 wheeler. It scored just shy of 180 points.

 

[Sparkitoff]

I'm re-visiting this thread because this is a pet peave of mine. The OP asked a bit about conservation and that hasn't been addressed much in the responses. I respect the opinion of others and I am certainly not one to lecture. So this isn't pointed at any individual.

I feel this topic is often ripe with an over-dose of righteousness.

Guiding on 3 continents for 25 years I have never had a situation where I point out a bull/buck and the client says "no thanks, I'd rather shoot that female (or smaller one)".

I have been to a deer hunting place where you pay one fee to hunt 3-days. Included in the price is a buck over a certain size. It is made quite clear that you may shoot a buck smaller than that size for a penalty of $600. It is amazing to me how many people shoot a smaller one and pay the extra money. There are cellular game cameras all over this property and the big bucks are there. Everyone has a chance to get one, it is not over-hunted or poorly managed. If you study the pictures you will see one of these bucks in daylight within 3-days. So why do so many people "settle" for the smaller buck and pay the penalty? First guess, lack of patience. Second guess, overwhelming desire to get "something". Third, doubt in general.

If you're raising the rifle on a deer and your crystal ball goes off and says, "There's a bigger one coming", which one of you is not going to wait?

I could go on but I think the point is made. You guys and gals don't see me with big buck photos. I make a point to take the first good opportunity to punch a tag regardless of the size of deer because I want to eat it or know somebody that does. Then I have at least 2 more buck tags. One of them historically goes un-punched because I am saving it for the buck that is bigger or older than any one I have taken previously. I've not taken a bull elk in a few years. Why, because I want the herd bull - one bigger or older than I have taken previously. I could shoot a bunch of nice bulls but that's because they are just easier to get, plain and simple.

Don't think this is now reverse righteousness. I'm no better than the next person just because I wait on a bigger animal. I am proud of the people that are out there tagging stuff. For me, I recognize the greater accomplishment of taking the oldest mature animal in the area, often the one with the biggest antlers. I also have a priority list of methods based on my experience. I feel in order of difficulty of taking a big mature animal the degree of difficulty is as follows: traditional archery, traditional muzzleloader, modern archery, limited range arms (modern muzzleloader, open sighted rifle, 100-year old plus calibers) and lastly modern rifles. There's a hell of a different skill set in getting 15-yards from an animal and using something with no sights, slow speed and antiquated technology compared to resting a rifle and magnifying an animal that is not aware of your presence, then using calculated information to shoot.

Again, I support all hunting and I celebrate success however it was obtained. Nonetheless, I won't pretend there was an abundance of skill needed to get an immature animal or to use layers of technology to take a big animal. This year I missed a few deer with my longbow but I finally got one. I took home a little spike buck on my muzzleloader hunt. Frankly, the doe was the greater accomplishment.

From a conservation standpoint, people way more qualified than I have come up with antler restrictions in the form of points, spread and combination factors. The idea is that the middle bucks do the majority of breeding. They are trying to create a balance of young bucks that will become middle bucks and more middle bucks that will complete their prime breeding life. The young and middle deer are not as smart as the older deer so when more of the younger are taken, less life skills and survival skills are passed on throughout the herd. I have no idea if the science is sound but that's what people with expertise in wildlife seem to say.

My challenge to everyone is to pick a size or age of deer and do whatever you think you must to purposely get that deer. You will be forced to be a better hunter and you will learn a lot whether you are successful or not. Hopefully, your State is generous and you have more than one deer tag so you can still get meat too.

 

[bang]

To shoot a massive symmetrical young super healthy buck is disrespectful to herd health. IMO.
I've harvested many with obvious defective gene antler growth. They eat just fine.
But I have also taken some nice ones that were old and near their end of productiveness.
Have been around many in my life that reek of big antler syndrome. They never considered the effects to herd health. Majority find themselves moving place to place only to decimate the health of herds everywhere they go. Some don't even eat the meat but at least give it to others. Personally, if you don't eat what you kill you shouldn't hunt. Kill happy is sick.

 

[Eric Krewson]

The way I see it, you can't make any money pedaling products to shoot fat does. You can make billions if you brainwash the hunting population to think that the hunt is about antlers and that you aren't much of a hunter if you don't practice quality deer management. Think of all specialty products from camo to doe pee that only have one purpose; to get that big buck in front of you. People in general are very easy to manipulate and the hunting industry has done an outstanding job at doing just that.

All this hoopla reminds me of when bass fishing tournaments became the rage about 30 years ago. Several of the guys at work bought in to the hype, they bought the new at the time "bass boats", fished their tails off in weekend tournaments and loved it. Of course it was all catch and release because that was the mantra of the day and still is.

I had an old flat bottom boat with a 20 Merc on it, I just fished, catfish, crappie, bass and stripe, what ever hit my lures I cleaned and put in the freezer.

I was at work one day and mentioned catching a few bass to fry up that night for supper, these bass fishing guys went ballistic. They got loud and in my face, we almost came to blows after I mentioned eating a largemouth bass and committing such a sacrilege by not practicing catch and release. Their industry brainwashing was complete, a sad thing in my opinion.

 

[FiremanBrad]

Several of you mentioned “the challenge “.
The biggest challenge in the deer woods is that giant mature buck. Plain and simple. Meat deer simply aren’t as big of a challenge.

 

[Bob McBride]

I’m meat in the pot. Period. That said, my goal is to take the mature 4-5 yo bucks who’ve already passed on their genes and who are super wary and tough to bag and leave the younger ones to mature or, most often, do what I do best. Doe Patrol.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I agree, we all have our different level of challenge, what might challenge me is usually associated with using hunting equipment I made for myself. A clean kill on a doe with an osage selfbow and wood arrow I made satisfies me more than whacking a good buck with modern stuff.

I got this one off the ground with an osage selfbow and wood arrow I made plus it was on a public hunting area. I threw up an impromptu ground blind that I made out of brushy stuff in a funnel I found deep in a hollow and he walked into my trap.

 

[OldRust]

We grew up not being allowed to hunt for anything that we were not going to eat. Not judging anyone else, it was just our way. Whitetail antlers make nice knife handles and Tag Soup is might thin.

Thanks
O.R.

 

[tenngun]

I know fat cow from poor bull. I will shoot a doe any time I can. And I shoot the first one that’s in my range. One set of antlers provides a lifetime of antler gadgets.

 

[Art Caputo]

Having hunted deer for well over five decades, the challenge and quality of the hunt evolved early on to be my top priority. I have always eaten what I shoot, or make sure that the meat is given to those who appreciate it. I respect the motives of a meat hunter, but I’m not one. In my early years any deer provided the challenge. As time passed, the particular habitat, and my skill as a hunter dictated the level of the challenge. A larger mature buck will generally be smarter, more wary, and therefore present a greater challenge...and a larger rack. This buck may be a 100 inch, three year old small basket 8pt in the Northeast, or a 180 inch 6 year old bruiser in Canada. Either can fit the definition of a challenge based on the circumstances, habitat, and difficulty to achieve success. If I end the season going empty handed, so be it. I can assure you I enjoyed the hunt and will do so until they plant me in the ground.

 

[Rodd Boyer]

I shoot whatever makes me happy..... as long as it's legal! Size or gender matter not.

 

[tenngun]

Several of you mentioned “the challenge “.
The biggest challenge in the deer woods is that giant mature buck. Plain and simple. Meat deer simply aren’t as big of a challenge.

A legal hunt is a legal hunt, and I care nought what some one does on the trail. I don’t feel any sort of moral superiority because I popped a deer at thirty yards over the guy who took a shot at half a mile.
Myself I don’t like to kill. It makes me a bit quisy however deer have horns and sharp hoofs, squirrels and bunnies have pretty sharp teeth and Turkey can almost beat you to death with them wings. And they seem to object to being eaten raw. So the only way I can get what I like in the pot is kill them that’s what I do. But the actual killing is the least favorite part of the hunt, I don’t hunt for a challenge myself.
But as said I don’t think of my hunt as morally superior and I will celebrate a big buck with you and lift my glass in a toast for a job well done.

 

[Blitz]

In my area of Kentucky you are limited to one buck of any size antlers, even button, but you can take as many does as you want, with a permit for each extra one, $10, I think.

Spence

Wow are you fortunate.
In california we spend a lot of money hiring wildlife managment experts and then the politicians make all the rules a la ban on lead projctiles and turning game wardens into narc enforcers ,they can search just about anybody any where they want no constitutional rights

 

[Dale Lilly]

A couple of things: Oklahoma is begging hunters to shoot does … herd management. Now see my story in "The Hunting Journal" forum for a great true story about a hunter refusing a trophy. Polecat

 

[tallpine]

This is an interesting thread. I am a meat hunter, we get two doe tags here and I usually fill both in early Archery season. After the freezer is adequately replenished I turn full blown Horn Hunter. The great state of Texas mandates that a legal buck will have an inside spread of 13 inches or better, which is usually a two and a half year old deer. This went into effect about ten years ago and I hated it at first but after a few years we started seeing some really nice bucks and more of them, my disgust at having to let those little fork horns and basket rack eight's walk was soon forgotten.
Hunting is a personal thing, do it your way, no apologies necessary, To say that one's manhood is somehow inadequate because he chooses to hunt mature trophy bucks might be just a little bit disingenuous.

 

[appalichian hunter]

I enjoy the hunt and matching wits with a old heavy horned buck, also if I kill it I eat it and use as much of the animal as possible. I understand the issues behind the doe harvest but personally am not a doe killer, no problems with those that shoot does. My late father was a great deer hunter he grew up and hunted for the meat, that part I never inherited from him. I have let really nice bucks walk waiting for the next one to sneak bye. If he knew that and was around he would kick my a@@ Is it about the trophy heads hanging on my wall yes every time I look at one the hunt comes back just like it happened. It has nothing to do with proving anything to anyone or inadequate manhood, You are hunting one of the smartest animals in the woods if they hunted us there would be no hunters, as I said skill, woodsman ship and with a bit of luck you or I have harvested one of the greatest creatures god blew breath into.

 

[hanshi]

I shoot whatever I'm after on any particular day. Sometimes a doe or a buck that strikes my fancy. I like nice antlers and won't turn down a decent opportunity to score; but I don't hunt specifically for ANY buck.

 

[bud in pa]

There is a hunting club close to where I live that does not allow anyone to take a doe. Even though the PA game commission has proven that we don't have the carrying capacity for the number of deer that we have. From what I can gather they feel that it is not beneficial to remove does, it will deplete the herd. A lot of hunters here in PA complain of not seeing deer . These people don't realize that when you put pressure on an animal they will change their patterns. Since the season on does has been lengthened the does change their patterns. That's why you don't see as many deer from your old reliable stand as you once did. As far as antlers go, I feel that as long as I take the animal by ethical and legal means it is a trophy.

 

[kemart17]

For all of my deer hunting career I seem to have been swimming upstream against the accepted opinion as to what it’s all about. For a large percentage of hunters it’s obviously all about the antlers, but that’s a minor consideration for me. I love the hunt, the challenge of outsmarting any deer, so it’s first come, first served with me. I don’t mind a buck having a big set of antlers, but I also don’t mind if it has a small set. Come right down to it, I’m after venison, and am not particular as to the package it comes in. As I said, upstream.

From a biological point of view it seems counterproductive. Mother Nature has it arranged so that the bucks compete, play king of the mountain, and that’s so the best, most advantageous genes are passed down to the next generation. And then we come along and concentrate on killing the winner, essentially defeating Nature’s plan. How is that a good thing?

Does anyone care to discuss why deer hunting should have always been a game of “my antlers are bigger than yours”? What is there about taking a buck with large antlers that’s better than one with small ones, or even a doe? Is it just a matter of machismo?

Incoming.

Spence

totally about the hunt for me and the experience. never ate a horn yet!