Whitworth Volunteer Loadings

[Blackfingers]

Since getting my rifle, I've tried several different bullet weights and powder charges. So far, 2 bulls out of loads of shooting at only 50yds. First was the 530gr bullet from Blue Falcon, then my Lyman 450gr. Having not so much luck then, I loaded some Lee R.E.A.L. in 200gr and 250gr. My load sequence is: powder, then wad or card then run a patch down the bore then load the bullet. Don't know what else to do. this rifle is capable of better than this. The shooting I engage in consists of monthly matches ranging from 25yds to 100yds. Did I buy the wrong rifle for this? Comments?

 

[rafterob]

No instant gratification here. Settle on your load first and then practice a lot with that load.

 

[TFoley]

Since getting my rifle, I've tried several different bullet weights and powder charges. So far, 2 bulls out of loads of shooting at only 50yds. First was the 530gr bullet from Blue Falcon, then my Lyman 450gr. Having not so much luck then, I loaded some Lee R.E.A.L. in 200gr and 250gr. My load sequence is: powder, then wad or card then run a patch down the bore then load the bullet. Don't know what else to do. this rifle is capable of better than this. The shooting I engage in consists of monthly matches ranging from 25yds to 100yds. Did I buy the wrong rifle for this? Comments?

Ghetto gun's post is a valid one, but you are not helping us out much here.

What is your load?

What powder are you using?

Stop using REAL bullets in your rifle, which was designed specifically to shoot LONG bullets of around 500gr in front of fairly stiff loads of at least 70gr of 3Fg.

Tell us more, and we'll advise you better.

tac

PS - do you have a Whitworth [hexagonal bore]?

Or a Volunteer [Henry or similar rifling]?

Not that it matters that much, TBH.

 

[Blackfingers]

Tac, Volunteer rifle, round bore. 50 grs fffg, card or waxed wad was used. Only shoot up to 100yds. Frankly, the heavier bullets are very uncomfortable. Just love the rifle and want it to work for me.

 

[Blackfingers]

Maybe I'll just suck it up and work with the 450's and heavier load, it won't kill me after all. This the nicest rifle I have ever owned, and the most money I have spent on one. Monthly shoots at my ML club are only 20-25rds, what am I worried about?

 

[Heelerau]

Mate I have been working up a Parker Hale Volunteer , 1s generation with Rigby style rifling for some time. I started with the 530 grain long bullet, that came with the rifle and a load of 73 grains of FFg Goex. I also fitted it with a platinum lined nipple as the ordinary ones cut out after only a few shots. You often have to pull the nipple and prime for your first shot because of the patent breach. I use a drop funnel , then waxed felt wad, card over the top, then I wipe with a windex damp patch then dry patch index the bullet casting mark with the foresight and seat gently. I have now gone to a 450 grain bullet as used in the whit worth rifle, (bullet not hexagonal) and am using 90 grains of FFg, I shoot at 200 m and am getting 8 to 9 ring groups, I am still tinkering till I get at least a 9 /10 ring group. Weigh you bullets and powder charges. I use a crisco lard based lube.

 

[ResearchPress]

If it's a round bored Volunteer rifle you're shooting them I am guessing Henry rifling, which is quite deep when compared with some .45 long range rifle makes. Start with a pure lead bullet - once your grouping tightens up you could then move on to experimenting with lead / tin alloys to see if there is any improvement. Eliminate variables and change one thing at a time so you can evaluate its effect.

For the 100yd shooting you're doing I'd start with 70-80gr FFg and a bullet around 480gr. Use a quality powder (eg. Swiss) - again, eliminating variables that may come from 'economy powders'. Once you have satisfactory groups you can maybe try different brands to gain some comparison.

As has been pointed out, nipples on these rifles can burn out quickly. The flash hole gets enlarged and this can lead to the hammer being lifted and gas escape. Platinum lined nipples are the solution to this (a 19thC solution).

If you're using open sights that addition of aperture sights may assist, although that may not suit your competitions(?).

David

 

[Blackfingers]

David, many thanks for the post. I failed to mention that I use Triple 7 powder, fffg. I wipe the bore after loading the powder and wad, and before I load the bullet. The rifling must be deep, it takes some effort to seat the bullet each time after the first, don't know why. I'm gonna fiddle with the Lee R.E.A.L. 250gr bullet for a bit, with the correct powder/load, there is no reason in my mind why it shouldn't work. I have a lot of the Lyman 450gr bullets, I bought the mold, and nearly 100 of the Blue Falcon 530's. Both load hard. I'll have another chance at the range next week. Maybe use BP instead? I have a lot of Goex ffg and fffg. One thing's for sure, the rifle stops with me! :v

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Is this a Pedersoli gun?

 

[fleener]

You have been given some good advice.

I assume you are shooting from a bench to work up a load, with a rest front and back? If so, what size of groups are you getting?

Sounds like your bullets are a little too big. Can you size them? I like a bullet that slides down with very little pressure, just a bit more than the weight of the loading rod.

I weight my powder to the 10th of a grain. I also weight my bullets. You might have to play around with different wads, or a combination of wads.

How good do you normally shoot other rifles?

In my rifles like this I use 86 grains of 2F swiss. Bullet and wads depend on which gun I am shooting.

fleener

 

[TFoley]

Sir, with respect, you seem to have missed or are ignoring all the vital points that Mr Minshall and I have been trying to make.

You are shooting a totally unsuitable lightweight bullet, using lightweight charges of an entirely unsuitable propellant.

I'm sure that your results will improve if you try the things that Mr Minshall, a many times British and Commonwealth class shooter of the very top of the league and author of numerous articles about the shooting of these rifles, has so far recommended.

tac

 

[fleener]

TAC

to be fair he did say that next weekend he was going to give the real BP a try, and that the larger bullets hurt.

At the short ranges you are shooting, give the 2f or 3f if you have it a try at around 70 grains of powder, with the heavy bullets you have. I assume that they are a GG bullet?

It will help if you tell us your group size. Are we trying to go from 2.5" at 100 yards or starting at 10" at 100 yards. All of us have a different opinion of what we consider good or bad groups.

Fleener

 

[Blackfingers]

Yes, made by Pedersoli, Navy Arms sells it, has Parker-Hale cartouche.

 

[Blackfingers]

I'm not one to ignore good advice. Therefore, I just got my kit and changed out the powder to Goex FFFG black powder. Also put aside the Lee R.E.A.L bullets and will sink or swim with the Lyman 451114 450gr bullets. Maybe as soon as Monday, I'll begin to sort out this fine rifle. Thanks to all who commented, hope to post better news soon. :thumbsup:

 

[TFoley]

:thumbsup:

tac

 

[ResearchPress]

As Fleener says, it sounds like you bullets may be a little on the large size. A close fit to the bore size and the bullet should load with little pressure. It may be if you are having to use some effort to seat the bullet there is deformation of the base?

Using heavier bullets and powder charges may be counter productive if it is uncomfortable for you - inducing for example flinching.

Its a satisfying (and at time frustrating) process working through all the variables to develop best accuracy. Enjoy it!

David

 

[Blackfingers]

David, I just ordered a sizing die outfit from Navy Arms for the very bullet I'm using. It is hand operated, not needing a press. I fully expect to enjoy better loading and maybe even some performance! :wink:

 

[nkbj]

Blackfingers,
Depending upon what your rifle likes all lighter weight bullets may not be problems.
Paper patching a soft cast semi-wadcutter (a mold such as would be used for a 45 Colt) might be a pleasant alternative. Such things will not be as accurate long range but a .45 Colt rifle can be pretty dang accurate at a hundred yards and it wouldn't bounce your bones around.

I shoot a .458 round bottom heptagonal bore rifle on occasion and like the Ideal/Lyman #457124 but have explored patching pistol molds for it too.

 

[Blackfingers]

Goodcheer, thanks for the note. I have several other rifles withwich to shoot those Lee R.E.A.L. bullets. As for this rifle, I'm all into making it work for me. I can take the pain with the heavier bullets. I just ordered the hand-operated Pedersoli 450/449 bullet sizer, should be here by mid-week. Then the serious work begins. Looking forward to more enjoyable range time. :thumbsup: Randy

 

[Blackfingers]

Just mic'd my 450gr Lyman bullets, .457. I feel now that I will have success after sizing them. No wonder they were hard to load down the tube!

P.S. Funny, the literature that came with the Lyman mold states they should be loaded as they were cast.