Which Hide and Tools for Ball Bags?

[swathdiver]

Rabbit, Goat, Sheep, Deer? What needle and size would you recommend then, a glover's needle instead of harness for example?

Acquiring supplies for a first time go at it.

 

[kobrakommander]

I used blacksmith sides for all my bags. Deer and other small game hides will be too thin and not hold their shape.

 

[Artificer]

Just about any hide of a game or domesticated animal could have been used, but I think rabbit and squirrel hides are a bit too thin. One hide we don't often think about today is pigskin, but it is not easy to find full thickness pigskin nowadays.

"Saddle stitched" deer skin pouches and ball bags hold up more than adequately, unless one wants to have a huge supply of balls in the pouch. I made plenty of ball pouches, with or without spouts, in the 70's that are still being used today. Of course any soft hide needs to be "pre-stretched" before cutting out the pieces and sewing them up. Otherwise the pouch is more likely to stretch and become misshapen.

Gus

 

[George]

What do you mean by 'ball bag', a bag just for holding balls, or an over-the-shoulder shooting bag?

Spence

 

[Curt]

swathdiver

Bark tanned deer ,goat,squirrel,coon ,wood chuck will work.Harness neadles beeswax and linen thread are the things I like to use .Just hemp or linen fabric works just fine too.Make a pattern and put it on the leather,start cuttin and sewin and see what you end up with and then show us some pix. Curt

 

[BrownBear]

I would get harness needles rather than glovers needles, along with a good awl (carefully sharpened). In my experience, if you try to do saddle stitching with glovers needles and no awl, the three sharp edges have a nasty tendency to cut thread as you pass the second needle through the hole. Nonesuch with harness needles passing through holes made by the awl.

 

[Curt]

BrownBear I use an awl and harness needles ,have never used glovers needles or any other sharp needle .I punch all the holes before I ever start sewin, one at a time.I have an awl a friend made me when i first started makin bags an such and I have never sharpened yet and it will draw blood if you know what I mean. Have fun stichin. Curt

 

[BrownBear]

Right now Tandy is having a sale on 4 to 5 oz single shoulders for $30. Lotta guys feel that's just the right thickness for bags, and 6 to 7 square feet ought to be plenty for your needs, with some to spare.

 

[Artificer]

Right now Tandy is having a sale on 4 to 5 oz single shoulders for $30. Lotta guys feel that's just the right thickness for bags, and 6 to 7 square feet ought to be plenty for your needs, with some to spare.

WOW, thanks for the info!! Looks like I will be adding a trip to Tandy tomorrow and I thought I was only going to buy blue jeans!

Gus

 

[druid]

If by "ball bag" you are referring to a small pouch that holds round ball/mini/maxi....then deer hide, goat skin or any leather that's about 2oz thick will do fine.

If you mean a larger pouch like a possibles bag or hunter's bag then you should go 5-7 oz leather.

For 2oz leather, a glover's needle is fine. If the 5-7 oz leather then you need a heavier needle or sewing awl or similar needle.

Saddle stitch your seams [if any] or whip stitch a bare edge.

 

[swathdiver]

Thank you gentlemen for your informative input. Which companies would you recommend for leather?

My initial plans are to make some ball bags (just old round ball) and can use I think hides from the famous auction site such as deer and goat.

Immediately following that we're going to make some holsters for our pocket revolvers and sheaths for our patch knives. Those I think would be better with cowhide.

For the sheaths and holsters, should we get 5-7 ounce hide or 7-9 ounce hide?

 

[BrownBear]

For sheaths and "pocket" revolvers the 5-7 will be just fine. But for the weight-bearing needed with a full-sized revolver, I'd go with the 7-9. Got a really saggy one (think poopy pants!) I made once using 5-6 oz. :redface: Been flopping around in a drawer for years waiting to be cut up for some small project or another.

 

[druid]

Yer welcome

For companies, I only use Tandy Leather but I have a local storefront where I can hand pick my leather. I belong to a few leather-worker forums and while many members use Tandy as well, others also swear by Springfield Leather Company. I have not personally made any purchases from Springfield but some of the things created by these artisans are phenomenal. Their wares wouldn't come out as working pieces of art if the leather was manure [and trust me, even a novice could tell].
http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/home/home.aspx
http://springfieldleather.com/

Here is a leather-craft forum that is well worth the free registry:
http://leatherworker.net/forum/

There is more useful information on that site than you can muster from a 60 hour search marathon on Google alone...and the people there are MOST helpful.


And brown bear is right...5-7 oz leather for small derringer/pocket pistols or everyday knife sheaths - and any hide between 9 and 15 oz for larger revolvers weighing in at 18 oz unloaded or more. The heavier the handgun, the thicker the leather should be.

Axe/hatchet/hawk masks are commonly between 8 and 12 oz leathers...but only because they are often created to be attached to a pack or swing from/tucked into a belt.

A cautionary note though...If you are going to create items that are meant to be historically correct, you will have to forgo any kind of man-made metal stamps, snaps or rivets, in favor of rudimentary carving techniques and lace thongs and toggles/PC buttons.

Even your sewing medium will have to be selected appropriately. Using sinews made from animal tendons [deer/elk mostly] should be used [or cotton linen thread], avoiding "artificial sinew" or other nylon threads. If you don't care about HC, then artificial sinew and copper rivets with burrs are perfect.

 

[Artificer]

Right now Tandy is having a sale on 4 to 5 oz single shoulders for $30. Lotta guys feel that's just the right thickness for bags, and 6 to 7 square feet ought to be plenty for your needs, with some to spare.

WOW, thanks for the info!! Looks like I will be adding a trip to Tandy tomorrow and I thought I was only going to buy blue jeans!

Gus

Well it turns out I had to delay until today, going to the Tandy Store in Richmond, VA. Funny thing is they moved the store since last time I was in it, so I had to hunt down the new location. VERY glad I did. Here's a report on what I found, though with leather, things may vary from store to store.

There was a large pile of those single shoulders in the store and I went through the entire pile. They were indeed Veg Tanned and nicely done. There were four or five that I would not have paid $10.00 for, but they were in the decidedly tiny minority. Maybe three more had the remains of brand marks that I didn't want for 18th/19th century reproduction work. The rest had good to REALLY nice amount of usable leather for the price and well worth the sale price as a good bargain.

Most of these shoulders were on the thick side of the 4-5 oz. weight. Maybe 20 percent ran a little thicker up to 6 oz. but not quite 7 oz. The temper was generally a bit harder than leather I am used to in this weight. (I personally would always prefer a little too hard to too soft, as one can bend and make it more pliable when needed.) Maybe 20 to 30 percent were just the right temper for a shot pouch/hunting bag/possibles pouch, IMO.

I pulled 3 of them that were so large for what I would normally expect in a single shoulder, I had to ask the store owners twice if they were properly marked as the Craftsman sides on sale. The owners said they had noticed the larger ones, as well, but yes they were still the $30.00 hides. I pulled two more that were not quite as large, but still on the large size for the amount of usable leather I had expected to find. I was extremely pleased with the leather in quality and quantity for this price.

None of the sides were quite long enough to cut a single long strap from, though guys who like their shooting pouches to ride high may find a piece long enough for those straps. The leather was long enough to cut two-piece straps from on many of the hides. All the leather pieces I purchased had plenty of leather to make at least two large shooting pouches or 3 small shooting pouches and with some leather left over. I am NOT counting leather for the strap in this estimation, though. You can get at least one large pouch and two piece strap (with leather left over) or maybe two small pouches and two two-piece straps from many of these sides. After looking at the hides and how much usable leather there was for the "bag" portion of shooting pouches, I would have no problem buying separate longer straps for them.

As already noted, what one may find in other stores may not be the exact same thing I found. However, IF one is interested in getting some good leather for a shooting pouch, I highly encourage folks to get over to their Tandy store before the end of the month comes and the sale ends AND go through every side in the pile.

Gus

 

[thecapgunkid]

Surprised that nobody answered Spence, because that first decision will drive your whole project. You might end up with more than one type if making an entire project based on function.

Somewhere in the history of this topic I left a set of posts on Eighteenth Century Stitching. Check it out before you part with your money. Try not to use the plier type hole punchers and stick with an awl. Your seams will hold up better that way.

Gus and the other guys are correct in that Tandy is the most readily available source because they have store fronts and different types of leather. They are designed for the first time guy, the experienced project guy or consumer in general.

If you want leather for just round ball, try the more flexible leathers such as deer or supple suede scraps they have in bins because you want it to shape when it goes into your hunting bag.

If you use deer or elk or any other supple leather try lining it with ticking to help keep its shape.

Cowhide in the thicknesses mentioned here will do and so will the hides they refer to as Oil Tanned... They are just suede loaded up with oil.

Having made everything from shoes to gunbelts to shooting bags to saddles out of Tandy stuff, I don't really have a lot of criticism for them because I tend not to buy in bulk, where the retail prices are unacceptable.

You might also want to pay attention to their peripheral products that you will use in your work. For example, If you want to glue your seams together and then stitch inside out (reversing them when done, of course) then use their water based contact cement rather than the Barge product. Your sinuses will like you for that.

Cowhide will react to stuff like Neatsfoot, mink oil or whatever you finish with because it is tanned at the factory to do that. Some guys like to dye leather and others oil it and set it out in the sun to get a rich, honey colored patina in one afternoon.

If looking for an aged look, there is some good advice in the thread to do that but try NOT to beat the manure out of your leather to make it look old.

You don't need ten penny nail sized harness needles to do the work (again, read the posts) and your awl and needle/thread combination is going to drive your work and have a big impact on how your finished product looks.

Have at it and, yeah, show us some pictures...

 

[Rifleman1776]

A small project like that is what scraps are useful for. Whatever leather you have laying around the house is fine as long as it is not too thick to work.

 

[Rifleman1776]

What do you mean by 'ball bag', a bag just for holding balls, or an over-the-shoulder shooting bag?

Spence

As I understand the term, it is a small bag just for holding balls.

 

[George]

Yes, same here, but these days one can't tell. Some people say ball bag when they mean shooting bag/shot bag.

Spence

 

[omarick1948]

Then again, he might be talking about those wooden necked bags that Cutfingers floods the Classifies with or should I say, Cutfingers Classifies section. ....... :rotf:

 

[BrownBear]

Then again, he might be talking about those wooden necked bags that Cutfingers floods the Classifies with or should I say, Cutfingers Classifies section. ....... :rotf:

Boy, the snow must be getting deep and the TV bad in some parts of the country. :slap: