what is your opinion of this.

[preston cook]

this b/s was taken from another forum what do you think? :idunno:
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Because so many folks have been mislead to believe it takes a ultasuperdupermag to kill a deer ??? I have always kept to myself about using my C&B revolvers for hunting. I have read enough here to see that most of you haven't bought into this commercialized movement.

I love the thread on shooting hogs with the 32! ;D

I have killed enough Whitetails with my revolvers that I can say that they are perfectly suited for hunting, deer at least.

30-35 Grs.(vol.) of 4f will shoot at .457 RB completely through a large deer with my Rem 58. The 4f gives me a velocity of 930fps. Some say that 4f is too hot but it is actually slower than Pyrodex P which shoots them at 1000fps with the same load. 3ff on the other hand only gives me 775fps with this load.

I was fully convinced of there killing power when I had a follow-up "situation" that required that I take a shot at just over 200 yrds and the ball struck the doe near the last rib and traveled forward through the lungs, Shattered a rib and stopped under the hide. I have the ball as part of my collection ;D The rib really deformed the ball, even at that distance.

Here is a pic of a nice piece of meat that I was lucky enough to get this year.


She was broadside and she busted me stalking her when I was about 75yrds (Some stalker I am :)) So I held up some front site and leveled it with her back, took a gently squeeze on the trigger and fired... She went down at the shot. The shot was a little high and just under the spine. I should have known that, as I practice with my pistol all the time at 60 yrds (it will keep all shots on a 5x7" paperback book, from field postitions, if I do my part... ) I just wanted to get closer and when she busted me I was convinced she was further than she was.

The ball broke rib going in and going out. .

My rem 58 is my favorite and the cheapest of all my revolvers.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

There was a time when 80% of the hunters in PA carried 30-30's. Now we need 7mm mags and 458 Winnies to kill whitetail. Somehow evolution made the white tail much tougher over the past 50 years. No wonder archers need cross bows now. Whitetails apparently got too tough for compounds.

Heck there are a number of out door writers claiming that muzzleloader rifles with round ball are insufficient for white tail.

All potential hunting weapons have limitations. I have no problem with using a remmie repro for white tail within those limits. Same for Atlatls spears and bolos. Heck for Urban areas with whitetail overpopulation, I suggest tranq bait. Put a pile of corn in the back yard laced with some tranq and check the pile during each football game commercial. When a big buck has fallen asleep at the pile go out and slit his throat. A type of hunting even Sarah Brady could support.

Seriously, In pa C&B revs are not legal for deer, but the 2mm Kolibri centerfire pistol cartridge is, with all it's 7 ft lbs of muzzle energy.

I agree that in many situations a c&b rev is insufficient for deer. But as either a primary weapon for close shots, or as a secondary weapon for follow up shots, I have no problem.

 

[matt denison]

This statement is a little hard to believe:

"at just over 200 yrds and the ball struck the doe near the last rib and traveled forward through the lungs, Shattered a rib and stopped under the hide."

200 yards is a heck of a long shot with any handgun. Seems even longer for a handgun with a notch in the hammer for a rear sight. You'd have to figure in some serious drop at that distance and that velocity. Maybe his distance judgement is a little off.

I might expect that from a .44 mag. but that is a 240 gr. bullet at 1200 fps + and the recoil is killer if you juice it much more than that.

I don't doubt for a second that a C&B revolver will take a whtetail at reasonable diatance. I know of deer taken with .45 cal. Juker and a fellow that I know has regularly taken white tail with his .38 special with 2" barrel. Don't reccomend it but it can be done. INSIDE 30 yards!

 

[nmdd]

"a shot at just over 200 yrds and the ball struck the doe near the last rib and traveled forward through the lungs, Shattered a rib and stopped under the hide."

With a cap and ball pistol..... :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[Stumpkiller]

I'm not much thrilled in calling a deer "a nice piece of meat" and it shows the author's opinion of them in general and hense his willingness to go after them with a round ball from a revolver. How many did he wound or miss?

25 yards maybe. 75 yards? IMHO that's irresponsible.

I was fully convinced of there killing power when I had a follow-up "situation" that required that I take a shot at just over 200 yrds and the ball struck the doe near the last rib and traveled forward through the lungs, Shattered a rib and stopped under the hide.

With a '58 Remington? Ok. He's a big lier. That's the whole front sight plus and an inch of barrel "in" the rear notch, I betcha.

 

[preston cook]

:thumbsup: my thoughts exactly. like i said this came from another forum no one here would do this.

 

[Wolfgang4570]

If my family and I were starving and that was the only thing available then probably I would try it if the range was close enough. I have taken lots of them with centerfire handguns 44 mags, 45colts with heavy loads (Ruger) 41 mags, even one with a 357 mag (never again) and what I would jokingly call a handgun, a 16" 45-70 barreled T/C Contender. Deer are not particularly hard to kill but with a handgun there is not much margin for error.

With a C/B revolver there would be no margin for error even with a max loaded Walker. I ain't buying the 200 yard bit either. :shake: :bull: From less than half that distance I have had failures to completly penetrate. I will grant you that some amazing things can be done with a handgun but the ones that can do it are few and far between.

A hunter owes it the game animal squirrel to elephant, to do the very best job possible to end its life quickly and humanely. I would guess that everyone here has enough money to purchase something better than a C/B revolver to hunt deer with. If you don't then sell your computer or don't hunt deer.

Not saying it can't be done but rather it shouldn't be done IMHO. :idunno:

Schutzenkette

 

[Stumpkiller]

I used to do a LOT of pistol shooting. Cap & ball and centerfire. Even with a S&W M-14 .30 Spl and mid-range wadcutters it is possible to set up rocks at 150 yards and splatter the lead on them. BUT, You can about count to two before it hits and, when it does, it doesn't hit very hard. Lethal? I wouldn't want to catch one, but certainly not reliable. And a rock is not a living animal.

One of my favorite things is to do a woods walk and shoot gongs or pans (I stop at garage sales for cheap pans). My .36 Navy is a hoot and a half - but judging from the impact it hits with about 1/10th the energy of even a moderately loaded .50 cal rifle. Leaves a mark but often not even a dent in cast steel or aluminum pans. That's pitiful.

Would it kill a deer? Certainly. But how often at anything over 50 yards?

If I was starving I'd try. But it's such a poor choice I won't do it deliberately.

I know someone who used a .45 ACP to kill a whitetail at 25 yards and it was very effective. But that was his self imposed limit with a 230 gr JHP - a lot more efficient a killer a round ball at pistol velocities.

I'm a huge fan of the round ball, and I know ballistic tables don't tell their story well, but I also am very careful how I apply them. Maybe someone can hit a 10" target 10 for 10 at an estimated 200 yards with the iron sights from a Rem 1858. I'd bet $100 against it, however.

 

[rafterob]

The part that scares me is 30-35 grains 4f. We are talking a full chamber of a powder not recommended for use as a charge. Maybe we'll see a picture pretty soon on that other forum of the side of the cylinder split out. I figured out the sight picture for 200 yards though. You hold the gun upside down and line up the top of the barrel with the bottom of the grip :rotf: Afterthought; maybe we shouldn't clutter our forum with this garbage.

 

[Eric N.]

I would take a 200 Yd. shot with a handgun.But it would be with my T/C Encore 30-06. This sounds like BS to me. Well maybe if the shot was taken gangsta style.

 

[nkbj]

"I was fully convinced of there killing power when I had a follow-up "situation" that required that I take a shot at just over 200 yrds and the ball struck the doe near the last rib and traveled forward through the lungs, Shattered a rib and stopped under the hide. I have the ball as part of my collection ;D The rib really deformed the ball, even at that distance."
:rotf:

 

[Zonie]

Well you guys, laugh if you must but I did some serious calcualtions with my roundball trajectory program and I came up with the following startling information.

He was using a .457 dia roundball so it weighs 143.2 grains.

His claimed muzzle velocity was 930 ft/sec.

The shot was made at 200 yards.

That ole .457 roundball had slowed down to 488 ft/sec. at 200 yards.

At 488 fps it still carried with it 76.0 ft/lbs of energy.

A .25ACP loaded with 1.4 grains of HP38 under a 50 grain bullet has a muzzle energy of 80.24 ft/lbs of energy which is 4.24 ft/lbs more powerful.

Now I'll admit there is more to killing than energy and a .45 caliber ball traveling at almost 500 feet per second is still pretty strong medicine but it's something to think about when he claims this ball went thru a rib and darn near thru the deer.

Oh, I almost forgot. He didn't say where he had zeroed his sights in but if it was at 30 yards he would have had to aim 136.3 inches high. That's about 11 feet 4 inches above his target. :hmm:

Personally I think that anyone who shoots at a deer at 200 yards with a cap & ball pistol had better be starving. If he's not he rates slightly lower than dog spore.

 

[preston cook]

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: so right sir. :bow:

 

[nilo52]

I own an 1858 remmie and have shot it many times with diffrent loads but that guy is full of STUFF
As you have pointed out Zonie, the hold over required in aiming is rediculus, forget about the pipe bomb load he said he used.
nilo52

 

[zimmerstutzen]

He loads a 457 ball into a Remmie repro? How much lead is shaved off?

Lyman does list velocity and energy for loads of 4fg in cap and ball revolvers in the Black Powder Handbook. Although I wouldn't do it ever, except perhaps in a Ruger OA.

A person would have to have very fine sights to even draw a bead on a 200 yd white tail. Most rifles' sights aren't that fine.

My Dad got a white tail with a 38 Spl snubbie back in the 1960's, but the deer walked directly under his tree stand. 10 feet straight down makes shot placement easy.

I have no problem at all with muzzleloading pistols for deer (regs here require 50 cal and up for such pistols), and there are alot of hunters here in PA who think they are too weak. Cap and Balls have even less wallop.

 

[Snakebite]

30-35grs 4F was my though also. More like a hand grenade and if I remember from back in the Army, the effective killing radius of a hand grenade is about 15m. If I was around that guy who made that statement, I hope I had on a tall pair of boots because the BS is pretty deep.

 

[Rifleman1776]

In the book about the real Jeremia Johnson (Crow Killer a/k/a Liver Eatin' Johnson) there is a incident described almost exactly like that. Johnson made the shot from quartering rear at considerable distance.
When discussing lead roundballs from muzzle loaders, I believe (note: "believe" as IMHO) trying to explain killing power with numbers like velocity and energy is an exercise in futility. The ball falls short in a the mathematical gyrations but, as most of us know, it has great killing power. I know the deer I have killed were mightly impressed.

 

[arcticap]

I think that the mistake in the OP is just a typo that involves the distance. He said that he got busted by the doe at 75 yards and took a shot. The number 1 key on the keyboard is close enough to the number 2 key to have made a typo. And maybe he's also not a good judge of distance. But whatever the distance the deer was shot at, the unseen photo shows that he shot a deer. Whether it was shot at 80 or 100 yards or not is really not the main issue. Some folks claim that C&B revolvers shouldn't be used to harvest deer past a handful of yards.
Not all deer are the same size. There are different factors involved but why dwell on the typo rather than on the larger picture? The OP wasn't a waste of time. I find it an interesting story and too bad that we can't see the photo.
I've heard about amazing shots before and I tend to believe posters on forums who have a reputation and who are real people despite having a forum name. People do the best that they can and if there's a typo or an honest mistake then that's understandable.
As far as refering to the deer as a nice piece of meat, folks often refer to a successful hunt as having made meat, so that's my explanation for his English usage.

 

[Don]

I think Trucker had it right in his opening sentence,"this BS"....

Don :bull:

 

[curator]

We are all skeptics! While not impossible, this is highly unlikely. Perhaps the author has exagerated the distance some what. (you think?) Depending on shot placement, a .45 caliber round ball can kill at this kind of range and velocity. It would have to be an extremely lucky shot with a revolver. Even a blind hog finds an acorn occasionally.