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What is the technical difference between iron and low carbon steel ?

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I've been working steel all my life and most of it gun steel and am still not sure what folks are talking about when they differentiate the two. I've read that soft iron barrels of history were such that a good pocket knife could shave a curl off from it. Steel is simply refined iron alloyed with carbon, no ?
Wrought iron is simply iron ore out of a flume furnace hammered into a usable shape isn't it and all iron has carbon present. Would it become steel when additional carbon is added in a remelt ?
Now inter cast iron which I believe has very high carbon content and had to be reheated to be cast but is also quite brittle so why is one iron and the other steel if carbon is present in both ?
 
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I'd like to get it all sorted out once and for all.

I have a 12" piece of 1018 DOM tubing that's dying to made into a .62 cal horse pistol.

3/16" wall.
 
My understanding is that cast iron has a relatively high carbon content, much higher than steel. Wrought iron is nearly pure iron with little or no carbon. Steel has a sweet spot in terms of carbon content that gives it it's hardening/tempering qualities.
 
My understanding is that cast iron has a relatively high carbon content, much higher than steel. Wrought iron is nearly pure iron with little or no carbon. Steel has a sweet spot in terms of carbon content that gives it it's hardening/tempering qualities.
This has generally been my understanding as well but am curious as to what others have learned and experienced in the working of this class of metal.
 
Steel has some carbon content. How much carbon basically determines the grade of steel. Mild steel has a relatively low carbon content, spring steels and tool steels have a higher carbon content. The amount of carbon also determines how hardenable the steel is. Mild steel cannot be hardened at all other than for case hardening. Spring steels and tool steels can be hardened... some of them excessively so, but they tend to be less tough and more brittle when they are hardened. This is why it must be tempered for most applications if it has been hardened.

Pure iron is not normally encountered outside of a laboratory. It is iron only and has no carbon. Wrought iron has been called pure iron, but it is not really pure. See the next paragraph.

Wrought iron has pretty much been out of production since the 1940's when the last of the wrought iron pipe ceased to be made. It has no carbon content other than perhaps trace amounts. It contains bands of slag, so it is easily recognized as it seems to have "grain" just like a piece of wood. It does have a few useful attributes in that it is highly resistant to rust and it can be welded in a coal or charcoal forge quite easily. You don't even absolutely need to use flux for welding it in the forge. It is much softer than steel though. This is one reason that the original Colt revolvers are black powder only. Their frames and maybe cylinders (I forget) were made of forged wrought iron.

Cast iron has a very high carbon content, so high that it is too brittle for forging, hence the name cast iron. There is also cast steel, which is another animal entirely.

Bear in mind also, that before the early 1900's, nobody really knew much about making steel. It's characteristics varied batch to batch, so if you got an antique gun allegedly made of steel, just remember that all steel is not created equal.

Now, to further confuse you, there are other things than carbon that steel is often alloyed with for different applications. These alloys can all be basically grouped as mild steel, medium carbon steel/spring steel and tool steel. Each variation has different attributes and if you are buying it from the dealer, you can get all the specs you need on it from him. Most hobby smiths work with primarily mild steel which can be either bought or salvaged. When we find actual wrought iron, we squirrel it away like a miser hoards gold.

This is the simplistic version, basically Steel 101 in a single paragraph. If you want more detail, you need to either visit a library or maybe go drinking with a metalurgist, a blacksmith and a modern welder. These types of folks can tell you more about steel than you actually want or need to know. They can tell you about Wootz steel, crucible steel, Damascus steel and probably some steels I never heard of.

As with everything, your mileage may vary.
 
Steel has some carbon content. How much carbon basically determines the grade of steel. Mild steel has a relatively low carbon content, spring steels and tool steels have a higher carbon content. The amount of carbon also determines how hardenable the steel is. Mild steel cannot be hardened at all other than for case hardening. Spring steels and tool steels can be hardened... some of them excessively so, but they tend to be less tough and more brittle when they are hardened. This is why it must be tempered for most applications if it has been hardened.

Pure iron is not normally encountered outside of a laboratory. It is iron only and has no carbon. Wrought iron has been called pure iron, but it is not really pure. See the next paragraph.

Wrought iron has pretty much been out of production since the 1940's when the last of the wrought iron pipe ceased to be made. It has no carbon content other than perhaps trace amounts. It contains bands of slag, so it is easily recognized as it seems to have "grain" just like a piece of wood. It does have a few useful attributes in that it is highly resistant to rust and it can be welded in a coal or charcoal forge quite easily. You don't even absolutely need to use flux for welding it in the forge. It is much softer than steel though. This is one reason that the original Colt revolvers are black powder only. Their frames and maybe cylinders (I forget) were made of forged wrought iron.

Cast iron has a very high carbon content, so high that it is too brittle for forging, hence the name cast iron. There is also cast steel, which is another animal entirely.

Bear in mind also, that before the early 1900's, nobody really knew much about making steel. It's characteristics varied batch to batch, so if you got an antique gun allegedly made of steel, just remember that all steel is not created equal.

Now, to further confuse you, there are other things than carbon that steel is often alloyed with for different applications. These alloys can all be basically grouped as mild steel, medium carbon steel/spring steel and tool steel. Each variation has different attributes and if you are buying it from the dealer, you can get all the specs you need on it from him. Most hobby smiths work with primarily mild steel which can be either bought or salvaged. When we find actual wrought iron, we squirrel it away like a miser hoards gold.

This is the simplistic version, basically Steel 101 in a single paragraph. If you want more detail, you need to either visit a library or maybe go drinking with a metalurgist, a blacksmith and a modern welder. These types of folks can tell you more about steel than you actually want or need to know. They can tell you about Wootz steel, crucible steel, Damascus steel and probably some steels I never heard of.

As with everything, your mileage may vary.
So soft iron barrels in history would have been low carbon, wrought iron being formed from flat scalps, hammer forged from iron ore out of a flume.
I know the Besimeyer (sp) furnace invention was the real break through in steel alloy making on and industrial scale.
 
It’s absolutely false that wrought iron is so soft you can whittle it with a pocketknife. This is one of the very worst of old wives tales.

I encourage anyone to get a piece of copper water pipe and whittle it to a 45 degree angle with their best pocketknife. Let me know when you’re done.

Then go get a wrought iron square nail. Not a modern horseshoe nail. A rusty old nail from a 1800s barn. File it till it’s like new. If you’re convinced that was easy, now whittle it. If you’re convinced you could pound a nail into wood when the nail is so soft you can whittle it, you’d better pound it into rotten wood.

I have re-breeched, re-drummed, and recut the rifling on many original wrought iron barrels. Modern ML barrels made of lead bearing steel cut easier.

The myth comes from somebody who compared wrought iron to chrome moly 4140. There is a real difference there.
 
It’s absolutely false that wrought iron is so soft you can whittle it with a pocketknife. This is one of the very worst of old wives tales.
Agreed. The first iron knives/swords were MADE out of wrought iron. It was vastly superior to bronze. Mild steel and wrought iron are not significantly different in hardness. Chrome molly steel is an order of magnitude advanced and is far superior in almost every way.
 
Iron is an element, steel is an alloy of iron, carbon, and other elements. The amounts differ for high carbon and tool steels. There’s more but I’m not prepared to type near enough to cover it. It‘s a whole science in its self.
This is so correct and from here it is a Google Question because of the depth.
 
So soft iron barrels in history would have been low carbon, wrought iron being formed from flat scalps, hammer forged from iron ore out of a flume.
I know the Besimeyer (sp) furnace invention was the real break through in steel alloy making on and industrial scale.
Well, the making of wrought iron is a bit more complex than that, but you are essentially correct. They typically pulled a "bloom" from the furnace, which was fueled with charcoal. The bloom was folded and hammer forged until more workable billets were formed from it. These might be sent off to local blacksmiths to be made into any number of things.

A book called "The Art of Blacksmithing" by Alex Bealer has a chapter on it.
 
A quick answer is steel is made when the impurities in iron are removed. Either through open smelting or the Bessemer process, which oxidizes the impurities like sulphur and other minerals. Other things, alloys, extra carbon, are added to make different types of steel.
 
It’s absolutely false that wrought iron is so soft you can whittle it with a pocketknife. This is one of the very worst of old wives tales.

I encourage anyone to get a piece of copper water pipe and whittle it to a 45 degree angle with their best pocketknife. Let me know when you’re done.

Then go get a wrought iron square nail. Not a modern horseshoe nail. A rusty old nail from a 1800s barn. File it till it’s like new. If you’re convinced that was easy, now whittle it. If you’re convinced you could pound a nail into wood when the nail is so soft you can whittle it, you’d better pound it into rotten wood.

I have re-breeched, re-drummed, and recut the rifling on many original wrought iron barrels. Modern ML barrels made of lead bearing steel cut easier.

The myth comes from somebody who compared wrought iron to chrome moly 4140. There is a real difference there.
The person ( Walter Cline if memory serves) who wrote this was not whittling but did say a good pocket blade could raise a curl made of this early iron. My guess would be he was probably describing a small curl on a barrel flat corner that a high carbon blade could make in a soft iron barrel.
 
Most iron used until the eighteenth century was bog iron. Gotten hot in a kiln then the impurities hammered out.
Steel was more refined and heated with bone and tempered in oil. It took considerable skill and experience to make. It’s why a fire steel is called a steel, as the bulk of things made were wrote iron
So axes would be made from wrote and steel insert fit in to the edge
King Tut, Tutankhamen had a meteoric iron nickel knife blade and a lump of meteoritic nickel iron was a prize at Achilles funeral games.
Pure iron is still harder then copper or bronze.
 
It’s absolutely false that wrought iron is so soft you can whittle it with a pocketknife. This is one of the very worst of old wives tales.

I encourage anyone to get a piece of copper water pipe and whittle it to a 45 degree angle with their best pocketknife. Let me know when you’re done.

Then go get a wrought iron square nail. Not a modern horseshoe nail. A rusty old nail from a 1800s barn. File it till it’s like new. If you’re convinced that was easy, now whittle it. If you’re convinced you could pound a nail into wood when the nail is so soft you can whittle it, you’d better pound it into rotten wood.

I have re-breeched, re-drummed, and recut the rifling on many original wrought iron barrels. Modern ML barrels made of lead bearing steel cut easier.

The myth comes from somebody who compared wrought iron to chrome moly 4140. There is a real difference there.
I will not say whittle, but a sharp quality high carbon hard steel knife can cut a tiny sliver of steel off the edge of a spherodized annealed precision ground 01 steel bar which is .95 to 1% carbon. But whittle? No.
 
Way back in the day.......

I bought an 1890 Winchester in .22 short that was used as a gallery rifle at fairs and such.
It had a noticeable punch mark at the right side of the crown that caused all of its shots to go to the left, at the range I pulled out my pocket knife and relieved the crown and it turned magically into a very accurate shooter with no recoil that immediately my wife claimed as her own and she has put hundreds of rounds through it since.

Can a good knife remove a sliver of an old barrel, I would say yes.
 
The point of the discussion, to me, it whether it is true or not true that wrought iron barrels wore out from shooting much faster than todays ML barrels because it was so much softer. The answer is no.

1) Wrought iron barrels are not softer than Rice or Colerain barrels, as examples.

2) Corrosion, not wearing out from shooting many rounds, is what ruins 98% of ML barrels that become non-functional.

Has anyone else here examined or restored old ML rifle barrels to accuracy? I do not understand the focus on “shot out” barrels. Extremely rare in field use in the 1700s and 1800s. Ever spend a night afield in a rainstorm with a gun you shot and reloaded without cleaning earlier that day? Ever do that 20 times a year? They did.
 

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