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What constitutes a "defective gun"?

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Rich

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im looking at the inlet around the trigger guard. Something with the finish on the wood looks fishy. Is it just the light, or is there finish missing? Looks older. Im thinking someone messed with that gun before.
 
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The touchhole in my Bess is actually lower than yours and it hasn't given trouble but it isn't right either. The transition of the forearm down to the nose cap looks terrible in your photo. Overall I would be extremely disappointed if I received your Bess.
 

Zonie

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From what I see in the pictures, the gap at the trigger guard is not 3/32" (.093"). It is more like 3/64" (.046") and while that's not good it isn't terrible.
The vent hole is low but it looks like it is above the bottom of the pan. At most, it is only about 1/16" below where it should be.
The wood next to the cock is removed to allow the stop on the cock to come to rest against the top of the lockplate. Almost all flintlocks are made that way.
The honing in the bore is rough. No doubt about that but, it won't effect the way the gun shoots. It will just make cleaning the fouling in that area a little more work.
 
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What kind of pattern Brown Bess is it?

I have a Charleville by Pedersoli the wood to metal fit is pretty good for the most part, but one thing I will say about Pedersoli guns is that they use a ton of wood and there’s often a lot left over, almost 1lb extra around the lock, trigger guard and butt stock.

The gaps around the upper are little unusual for Pedersoli.

Is this a new gun?

Did you purchase it from a dealer like Dixie Gun Works or Taylors and Co ?

It almost seems like it was worked on poorly from a kit , some dealers bring over the Pedersoli arms in kit form and assemble them in the USA, I’m not sure as to the extent of the completion of their kits, however I do know that Pedersoli finishes the barrels, touch hole drilled and bores are polished out. The barrel in what looks like 180 grit is unusual.

I’d try to return it, Pedersoli guns are not intended to be builders kits, especially if you got the gun completed and their kits are very easy.
 

toot

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I think it is all cosmetic, every one buys a FORD & wants a CADDILIC, for the price of a FORD. most of the pictures are / seem to be of foreign made guns, what do you expect?. jmho.
 
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This one was a real bear to try to take. You can somewhat see the 'honing' marks in bore. This only continues down the bore roughly 3" or so then the bore is mirror like bright and smooth. Very odd.
If you mainly shoot shot this is actually an advantage, it helps separate the wad or ‘shot container’ from the payload. I rough up all of mine for this purpose. I don’t know if it has any effect on solid shot.
 
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The pics are of a gun that’s definitely not up to Pedersoli’s usual standards of quality. I’d be looking for a replacement or refund as well from the place that sold it to me. If they tried to pass responsibility up the chain to the importer, factory or wherever I’d stand my ground. They should have looked inside the box before they sold you what’s in it.
Amen to that!
 
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If you’re not happy with it my friend maybe you should send it back then?

These issues that are unsatisfactory to you will always bug you and be in the back of your mind.

Sort of like a builder who made some blaring mistakes on a build. He did a fabulous job of either rectifying or covering up those mistakes. He still knows they’re there. Others would never see them? Mentally he will always go to those flaws.

He thinks silently “ Beautiful rifle but????

If you’re not happy send it back.

Respectfully, Cowboy
 
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Ok, I will try to address some of the points brought up by other forums members.

1. Some folks have mentioned trigger guard pics. I have NOT posted any pics of the trigger guard. Not sure what y'all are seeing but it ain't the t.guard.

2. The "import gun" comments. Well guys the original muskets we all call brown bess now were all IMPORTS back then. Most firearms, not all, but most firearms were imports in the early days of our country's beginings. Granted not from Italy, but imports non the less. Pedersoli makes fine quality firearms but sometimes a dud slips through.

3. Yes this is a new gun. Yes it's a Pedersoli. Yes it's from a major muzzleloading dealer. I can't answer the question of whether or not it was imported as a kit gun then assembled by the dealer. I would have no idea if that occurred or not. If I am reading the date code correct, it was made in 2014.

4. At least one has commented on the funny looking marks in the finish. That is only my poor quality camera on my tablet and sunlight playing havoc with it. The quality of the walnut and the finish on the wood is fine.

5. One gentleman commented that the cock appeared crooked. Good catch, I missed that.

6. As for Ford vs Caddy money and quality, well I paid Buick money and the craftsmanship is on par with a Yugo. Assembling a muzzleloader in a factory is not some mystical black art. This musket is not on par with a $400 Traditions.

7. The dealer has emailed me a UPS call tag and the musket will be sent back tomorrow. I will have to see what the dealers opinion is when it arrives and is inspected.
 
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That's the first Bess I've seen with a case hardened lock - did that come from Pedersoli or is someone using Pedersoli parts and building it up that way?

Yea, I was thinking the same thing, Brown Bess Locks are not case hardened.

I think this musket was worked on by someone, or might be a resale of used stock.

I have a Pedersoli Charleville, its not without issues that I noticed, because I like my guns a certain way. The Triggerguard on my charleville was cut too deep and the lock panels are way too large, so my gun has a ton Of excess wood.

I had to epoxy beneath the butt plate to void out a 1mm gap between the butt plate ant the stock.

The ramrod spoon was useless, way too weak and thin. I had to forge one out of 1070 stock down to around .089 and open up the mortise.

The ramrod spoon pinhole wasn’t drilled straight so it caused some chipping at the hole, this need to be refilled with expoxy, redrilled and the surface conditioned to match the rest of the stock (Came out pretty nice Actually).

Pedersoli guns are never perfect, even their Brown Bess’s that are considered top quality need some kind of re-conditioning. The Pedersoli Bess I have I had to do the following.

Tune up the lock, the lock was not working well, it was rough inside and the mainspring was too weak.

The barrel lugs were not cut far enough into the barrel channel making hte stock lift toward the muzzle End.I needed to cut them deeper.

Slingswilve lug was missing.

butt plate tang was not fitted very well to the stock.

Tang Screw wasn’t countersunk very well.

Nose cap was lose and wobbly.
 
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toot

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why don't you put it up on the site for sale? I am Shure some one would jump on it?
 
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Yes guys it's a real Pedersoli brown bess model.
Yes, I understand that Pedersoli made the parts but in all the years I've been shooting, in all the years I've had Pedersoli guns, five of which were Brown Bess muskets or carbines I've never seen a case hardened lock or the type of workmanship I see in your pictures. Without some kind of reference I can't believe your gun came from the factory that way. It looks like a kit gun someone has made changes to.
 

hanshi

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The gun would likely fire okay and may not be covered by the vendor's "defective" criteria. But you say it's a disappointment compared with your other Pedersoli guns. Considering what their guns cost, I'd expect better from them. I've had two Pedersoli, a flintlock rifle and a dbl barrel shotgun. They were fine, especially that nice dbl, but the rifles lock was manure. I'd say if you can't exchange it then get your money back. You can have a custom gun built for only a little more than the cost of the Pedersoli.
 
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Update-

I now feel able to divulge more details. The vendor, Dixie Gun Works, sent me a call tag via email to return the gun on their dime. After they received it, they contacted me via email and offered either an exchange for another Brown Bess, a refund, or credit towards a different gun. After an email conversation with an employee of DGWs I decided to take the credit option. I decided to opt for a flint Mortimer 12 guage. The two guns cost the exact same so I asked for who to contact to pay for shipping and DGWs offered to cover the shipping themselves! After the initial phone call, I feel as though DGWs has gone out of their way to be helpful and remedy the situation. I have bought a few guns from them over the years and will definitely continue to so. The same applies to Pedersoli. This is the only dud I've received from Pedersoli.


As for those who say this could not be a Pedersoli Brown Bess variant, well it is. The gun was a Dixie Brown Bess Trade gun. Hence the browned barrel and color case hardened lock. A fantasy piece for sure, but it absolutely was a factory Pedersoli made musket. I intentionally left that part out as it would of immediately identified the vendor and I wanted to give the vendor every opportunity to remedy the matter before their name got 'drug threw the mud'.

Maybe I'm too picky but this particular Pedersoli was not up to par with what I am used to seeing from Pedersoli. I'm happy that the situation has been rectified.
 

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