Waterfowl Hunting Loads

[matttdalton]

What's the best patterning/most successful waterfowl hunting load combination anyone has put together? I'm open to try anything and just hoping to get some solid ideas before heading to the patterning board. Many thanks in advance for your help.

I'm brand new to muzzleloader shotgunning and just picked up a single barrel CVA Hawken 12 ga with a screw in full choke (and double set triggers, silly for a shotgun). I know it's hardly traditional and is clearly a Frankenstein rifle stock/shotgun barrel, but I got it as a super cheap way to get me started. The way I bird hunt, I'd bet most shots will be taken on still resting/feeding ducks/geese, so a "turkey gun" should be fine. Believe me, I'm anxious to upgrade and haven't even shot it yet.

 

[BrownBear]

My CYL bored 12 really thrives on 80 grains of 2f under 1 1/4 oz of shot, or interesting enough, on 90 grains of 1f and 1 1/4 oz of shot. I have complete happiness with a hard 1/8" hard "Type A" card over the powder, a lubed fiber wad on top of that, and a couple of standard "over shot" cards over the shot. Lots of folks condemn the fiber wads (most without even trying them) for causing "donut" patterns. Not my experience at all unless I'm tooting too much powder under the shot.

My patterns are reliable killers out to 30 yards with that combo. "Short" to some folks, but I just adjust my hunting location to keep shots within that range. Lots of folks claim good patterns further, but I'm yet to experience good dense patters at anything like 40 or even 35 yards.

Bottom line, each gun is different, and it's wise to do lots of experimenting with yours.

 

[GJP]

BrownBear, are your loads with steel or lead shot? Thanks - Jerry P.

 

[BrownBear]

Neither for waterfowl. I've had terrible luck with steel, even using the right plastic wads. Velocity is the supreme factor with steel shot, and black powder just doesn't generate enough of it. Try to compensate by using larger and larger shot, and your pattern just gets thinner and thinner.

I've tried most of the various lead subs and settled on ITX Original-10. Funny looking stuff, but it patterns well for me in spite. Killing fool when it finds a bird. I was happy with bismuth too, but ran through a spell when I couldn't get it. Tried the ITX and never looked back. No need for plastic wads at all. Probably because it's harder, it actually patterns a lot better than lead in my guns.

None of the subs are cheap, but I've learned something. They're actually a whole lot cheaper than cranking shells through a modern gun. I shoot lots fewer shots on any day with a muzzleloader, and it's waaaaaaay cheaper just buying shot in the first place, rather than loaded shells. A real busy day with the muzzleloaders is 10 shots, but I know guys who go through 20 or 30 shots per day with their modernshuckers. And I get just as many birds, and often more.

Cheap is where you find it and how you justify it! :rotf:

 

[nwtradegun]

you cant use lead shot for water fowl, it has to be lead free. also you cant use steel in it it will run your bore.

 

[GJP]

Thanks BrownBear. I just got an English 20Ga. fowler and my son wants me to take him for geese with it. I am just trying to find some load info and any help would be great. Thanks - Jerry

 

[BrownBear]

...but I know guys who go through 20 or 30 shots per day with their modernshuckers. And I get just as many birds, and often more.

Cheap is where you find it and how you justify it! :rotf:

I just checked up on my hunting buds, most of whom shoot Hevi-Shot 12 gauge 3" shells in #4. They're paying $48 per box of 10 shells, or $4.80 a shot. At 30 rounds in a day that's $144 for an average day of shooting!

Heck, I'm spending $154 for a 7# bag of ITX shot, and I seldom use a bag in a year.

 

[spudnut]

I'd love to hunt goose here in Michigan we have TONS of em but its just too expensive for the shot

 

[Capt. Fred]

I hunt wood ducks out of a kayak. I drift down creeks and jump shoot them so the shots tend to be pretty close. Max would be 30 yds, but lots of my shots are 20 yds or so.

I use a 12 gauge double flinter that I built. It has 30 inch modern (early 1900's)barrels that are choked modified and a little under full.

The load this gun seems to like is 100 grs of FF and 90 grains volume of #6 ITX shot. I use two overshot cards over the powder and 2 overshot cards over the shot. I experimented with various wads and this gun seems to like the cards.

You'll probably need to experiment to see what your gun likes. They can be pretty picky. Hope this helps!

 

[ddoyle]

Yes a milk carton of bismuth is a HUGE investment compared to lead BUT. Kill a goose. Pluck it. clean it up. Age in the fridge a day or two or three. poke small holes in the skin (not all the way thru). Steam it for 15-30 mins (depending on size). Back in the fridge for a day to dry.

Now roast that bird. Make some gravy. Serve.

Worth every penny spent on shot.

Try buying an organic non factory goose of comparable quality......Can you get one for less then 50 bucks?

In Paris France a table spoon of wild goose gravy costs 8 euros. It is worth every bit of that money.

Regarding the use of the 20 bore on geese. Not to start a debate but geese are dam hard to kill, a wounded one will fly/glide/swim/run farther faster and with more devious tricks then most people can compete with (Man's best friend fixes it) If you are going to shoot geese with a 20 gauge cylinder bore they need to be close, I mean real close. It can certainly be done but the shots need to be picked with alot of patience and self control. That said IMHO if a man was able to shoot 2-3 geese a day with any sort of consistency he should be very very pleased with the situation. And if he is able to come home with one goose in three trips he is still a rock star.

 

[Britsmoothy]

you cant use lead shot for water fowl, it has to be lead free. also you cant use steel in it it will run your bore.

I have made a card wrap for steel shot and it does work, but you have to be close.
No damage to the bore.
Two wraps of card.

B.

 

[matttdalton]

Thanks brown bear! I've heard good things about nice shot but the ITX seems more easily available. I'm glad to hear you just load it very much like lead. My head was spinning that I might need plastic shot cups, buffer and all kinds of other things. I'm hoping to keep the reloading process on a hunt as simple as possible. Many thanks again. I can't wait to experiment and find my load!

 

[matttdalton]

Capt. Fred. That is exactly how I hunt waterfowl. Have you found and best practices on reloading from a kayak and keeping everything dry? I found using a single paddle really keeps thing dryer and with a lower profile which is really important when it's cold enough to make ice from paddle drips

 

[BrownBear]

I can't wait to experiment and find my load!

In this and your subsequent post, you raise an important point. Lots in waterfowling with muzzleloaders boils down to practical matters of loading and keeping things dry. For example, I do most of my hunting over decoys while lying on my back under low cover. Until I got it figured out, my loading gear was strangling me hanging around my neck and spilling out onto the wet ground. Took a while to sort it out, but it was all on me to do so because there's not much detail provided by historic hunters and craftsmen.

Get on out there and get to shooting! Hint: You're likely to become a fan of bags with big flaps made from oiled and waxed leather. :wink:

 

[Capt. Fred]

M Dalton, I use a regular kayak paddle. It has those rubber cups on the handle which helps to keep some of the drips off of me. I still get some drips though.

I sit with the butt of gun resting on my shooting bag between my legs - muzzle pointed towards the bow. I have a piece of waxed elk hide that is about 12 inches square. I have a tie on the left hand corner of that hide, closest to me, and it is tied to the seat in my kayak. I drape this hide over the gun and it protects the locks and shooting bag from drips. When I pick the gun up to shoot, the hide drops away onto my lap.

I still manage to get myself and my stuff wet though!

As you've probably found, this is a super fun way to hunt ducks though. Well worth some cold and damp. :hatsoff:

 

[matttdalton]

Wow, you all have been so helpful in giving me ideas on where to start. Many thanks to you all for the advice and recommendations. I had a feeling that flapped bags and a gun cover flap would be the route needed but as you said brown bear, the old timers were doers not writers. Check out the book "Outlaw Gunner". Though the only muzzleloaders are punt and battery guns, there's a lot of great old timer info. Anyway, it sounds like the first hunts will be as much of an experiment as the first loads!

Also, DDoyle is right. Geese are some tough, strong critters. No matter what kind of gun or shot you use the only practical vital kill area on a goose is in the head and neck and you want to hit it as hard and dense as you can. Otherwise you can end up on a REAL wild goose chase

Kayak hunting is so fun. There's something magical about big guns and little boats and ice cold water... It makes me gitty!

 

[laufer]

another vote for itx. #4 for ducks, #2 for geese, works every time if i do my job, sometimes even if i do not.

 

[Patocazador]

you cant use lead shot for water fowl, it has to be lead free. also you cant use steel in it it will run your bore.

Actually, you can use steel shot and not ruin your bore as Brit stated.
I use Multi-metal plastic wads from Ballistic Products and have noticed no bore damage.
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/BPI-Premium-Field-Wads/products/655/

 

[matttdalton]

Thanks. I'm going to try the ITX #4's first. I like that you don't need a plastic shot cup to make it work. I may even try that "reversed wad" load from another post.

 

[BrownBear]

Thanks. I'm going to try the ITX #4's first. I like that you don't need a plastic shot cup to make it work.

True for the Original-10 version. Not so for the later, harder Extreme-13.