Using 3F or 4F black powder

[mooman76]

CVA may not have built the best guns out there but they were sound and shot well. Allot of people including myself may have never got into the sport if it wasn't for their low cost guns. I have several and have had almost no problems with them over the years.

 

[Rick Boylan]

I must be lucky then. I bought a used CVA Hawken back in the 80s. It's a .50 cal. I've put hundreds of rounds through it. It's one of the most accurate rifles I own. The only time it failed to fire was when I was using some pyrodex in it.

 

[cynthialee]

There are some small caliber pistols and single shot screw barrel pistols where the load manual specifically calls for FFFFg powder. It is always a small amount but it is kind of important in these pistols.
A friend and I were shooting one of the .44 screw barrel pistols with FFFg and it wasn't enough power behind the ball and we were getting balls bouncing back at us.

Always consult the load manual. Now sometimes in life there are misprints and mistakes, so if a load out looks wonky to you don't hesitate to ask around. But ask people who know what they are doing.

 

[Rick Boylan]

I only use FFFG in both my Hawken caplock and my Pedersoli Kentucky flinter. Heck, I even prime my pan with 3FG. Goes bang every time and never a problem.

 

[Billnpatti]

Well, they say it is hard to argue with success. :haha:

 

[Billnpatti]

Well, you are on the right track but,

"This the rule
Above all,
First the powder,
Then the ball."

I have that scramshawed on one of my powder horns. :haha: It is some of the best advice I can give you. :hatsoff:

 

[rodwha]

It appears as though, from another's research, that Hazard's Revolver Powder was 4F.

It's quite lengthy and so it would require me to email it, and he has given permission to do so. It comes with many references.

 

[George]

But ask people who know what they are doing.

Aye, there's the rub, where you going to find 'em?

Spence

 

[cynthialee]

But ask people who know what they are doing.

Aye, there's the rub, where you going to find 'em?

Spence

Well if I want advice on plants, I go to a horticulture forum, when I want advice on dealing with pottery I turn to pottery groups seems to work rather well, and when I want advice on BP guns, I turn to the muzzle loading forum.
Go to the places that people who hold similar interests congregate.

 

[George]

Beware of Fools Gold.

Spence

 

[cynthialee]

Beware of Fools Gold.

Spence

So if you have no faith in the wisdom of the group...then why come here at all?

 

[Brokennock]

There is definitely some wisdom (maybe even a little brilliance) in the group, but then there are a few fools, and some who could be wise but are fools because they stick dogmatically to what they believe regardless of evidence, scientific fact, or experience. I often think, from the "tone" of some of these people's posts, they are simply like his because they can not admit someone else is correct or has a valid argument or opinion. Self appointed experts.

Where does that leave our group of gold and fools gold, I think we average out on the gold side, but what the gold is worth and how the average works out may be up to the beholder's ability to filter who and what is worth what.

As for powder, I like 3f for my few guns. Seems like I get less fouling and more energy for less powder. That's a couplenof .45 rifles and a .62 Centermark Fusil.

 

[George]

So if you have no faith in the wisdom of the group...then why come here at all?

Faith... that's a good way to describe it... belief without evidence or in the face of contrary evidence, and the more evidence there is, the harder the belief. Well put.

But, I come here for the grits discussions. Where else can you go to get an honest, adult conversation about that ambrosia of the gods?

Spence

 

[MSW]

"elongated ..." as in, say, a .54 Minnie? as I would shoot through a falling block caplock? am I about to get myself into trouble?

the instructions (and I will, upon pain of having to surrender my mancard to the authorities, neither confirm nor deny reading) indicate about 70 or 80 grains ... been using either 2F or Pyro "cartridge" weight ... no signs of any problems, but in the ML game you don't get things like blown primers to let you know you're getting too hot for your own good...

not trying to get 'decisively engaged - ' just askin' ...

 

[Alden]

THANK you! Finally someone who has their ducks in a cornrow.

 

[kopfjaeger]

Further clairification for those who don't want to go read what I said:

As I mentioned in that topic, the video was made primarily for the people shooting those new fangled guns that we don't talk about.

Almost all of the people using them, to a man use heavy, elongated bullets and IMO, 3Fg and 4Fg powders will create tremendous breech pressures.
I'm talking about pressures that are getting up into the smokeless powder range.

Because some of us Traditional rifle shooters also shoot some heavy conical's in our sidelock guns, I think the statement about not using those powder grades is as valid for us as it is for those "other guys", but only if a conical is being shot.

For the people shooting patched roundballs, the 3Fg powder will work fine.

I notice that in the "Lyman Black Powder Handbook & Loading Manual", they only show 2Fg, Pyrodex RS and Pyrodex Select powders for the heavy conical's they tested. No 3Fg loads at all are shown.

I wouldn't recommend 4Fg powder for anything other than flintlock pan priming.
I suppose it is HC for the little .31 caliber cap & ball revolver but even then, it would be for a light 8-10 grain load of the stuff.

Zonie, I have a Lyman Black Powder Handbook copyright 1975 by C. Kenneth Ramage ( editor ) that has using FFFG loads all the way up to .54 caliber and some of the projectiles are conicals. Is the book your talking about a newer book.

 

[Zonie]

My Lyman Black Powder Handbook is the 2nd edition published in 2001.

The older handbook also listed several loads of 4F (FFFF) powder in some of the loads.

It seems they dropped all of the 4F powder data for all of the barrels they list and most (if not all) of the 3Fg powder data from elongated bullets powder loads including the .58 caliber Minie's.

 

[azmntman]

grits-based, logic.

LOLOLOL :rotf:

 

[azmntman]

Had one of those guns in a book with screw on barrel. Fully loaded with 3f it would not stick a ball into a piece of wood. My son "took it" from me, will tell him to try 4f.

 

[kopfjaeger]

Alden said grits-based, logic. :youcrazy:

Actually that sounds a little bit racist against southern or rural people.